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> Football League, 5 divisions, 20 teams, I smell a rat
Fathead The Glad...
post May 19 2016, 05:13 PM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36335384

Where is the detail on how clubs excluded from this '100 club' will access the FL? Not sure I understand the reasons why this is necessary, except to exclude the disturbance of equilibrium.


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a view from outs...
post May 19 2016, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE (Fathead The Gladiator @ May 19 2016, 06:13 PM) *
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36335384

Where is the detail on how clubs excluded from this '100 club' will access the FL? Not sure I understand the reasons why this is necessary, except to exclude the disturbance of equilibrium.

Note that the greed league is in favour, no doubt yet again pushing for the inclusion of Prem League B teams to make the number up - which that article fails to mention even though Harvey has said it's a possibility.
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Astro
post May 19 2016, 05:47 PM
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The proposals are for extra teams from the pyramid to come up.

But I can see B Teams replacing them. Surley amalgamating the Conference' and reducing the numbers would be a quicker, cheaper way.
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Lobster
post May 19 2016, 07:02 PM
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I don't think it's a bad idea personally. It would mean more places up for grabs in the League, and 24 teams is too many in a division.

The B Team idea absolutely must be dropped once and for all though - that simply can't happen. I would be interested to hear what the plans are below the 100 as well.
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waggoner
post May 19 2016, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE (bluesince72 @ May 19 2016, 08:33 PM) *
QUOTE (Fathead The Gladiator @ May 19 2016, 06:13 PM) *
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36335384

Where is the detail on how clubs excluded from this '100 club' will access the FL? Not sure I understand the reasons why this is necessary, except to exclude the disturbance of equilibrium.



Under these proposals promotion and relegation between the FL and National League will continue, relegation will only be scrapped for one season, 2018-19, when eight will go up. Though there is no mention of whether it will remain 2 up and 2 down.

The possible inclusion of PL B sides in the FL Trophy must be resisted, it will be of no benefit to anybody except the PL clubs, the same clubs that are already killing the game by taking nearly all of the money going into English football. Who wants watch their club playing a reserve team ? Its an insult to fans of lower division clubs by people who care only about the TV generated revenues that end up in the hands of a rapacious plutocratic football elite of 20 clubs. It could also be a Trojan horse, if by some chance their participation proves to be even a partial success, they may again call for inclusion in the pyramid.

My main concern though, is how will clubs below the Championship cope financially with the loss of 4 home fixtures? Fan owned clubs being most affected by this as they have no financial backers ready to make up the shortfall. 2O clubs might be good for the PL, and viable for the Championship, but it will be financially damaging in the lower 3 divisions, and they continue to rule out regionalising the two lowest divisions, a move which would make sound financial and sporting sense, as more local games attract, greater interest, larger gates, and less travel expense.

i would of thought that doing a league 2 north and south would be a better option surely?. More derbies, less travelling
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post May 19 2016, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (bluesince72 @ May 19 2016, 08:33 PM) *
QUOTE (Fathead The Gladiator @ May 19 2016, 06:13 PM) *
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36335384

Where is the detail on how clubs excluded from this '100 club' will access the FL? Not sure I understand the reasons why this is necessary, except to exclude the disturbance of equilibrium.



Under these proposals promotion and relegation between the FL and National League will continue, relegation will only be scrapped for one season, 2018-19, when eight will go up. Though there is no mention of whether it will remain 2 up and 2 down.

The possible inclusion of PL B sides in the FL Trophy must be resisted, it will be of no benefit to anybody except the PL clubs, the same clubs that are already killing the game by taking nearly all of the money going into English football. Who wants watch their club playing a reserve team ? Its an insult to fans of lower division clubs by people who care only about the TV generated revenues that end up in the hands of a rapacious plutocratic football elite of 20 clubs. It could also be a Trojan horse, if by some chance their participation proves to be even a partial success, they may again call for inclusion in the pyramid.

My main concern though, is how will clubs below the Championship cope financially with the loss of 4 home fixtures? Fan owned clubs being most affected by this as they have no financial backers ready to make up the shortfall. 2O clubs might be good for the PL, and viable for the Championship, but it will be financially damaging in the lower 3 divisions, and they continue to rule out regionalising the two lowest divisions, a move which would make sound financial and sporting sense, as more local games attract, greater interest, larger gates, and less travel expense.

In the interview with Harvey that I saw he admitted that B teams could make up the remaining 6 places but thought it unlikely that FL clubs would agree. He said that would be discussed only after FL clubs voted in principle for the 5 division plans. He may since have backtracked but from what little I've seen of the proposals they are so vague they don't rule anything in or out . With regard to loss of income, that seems to be covered by his pronouncement that "Our clubs shouldn't be the only one to shoulder the burden. We won't be looking for clubs to take a financial haircut to support this". That suggests to me that losses would be covered and "our clubs shouldn't be the only ones" would further suggest that the PL, possibly in the form of increased solidarity payments, would again appear as the FL clubs white knight. It would also of course result in FL clubs being in even more hock to the greed league - remember the reported threats of cuts to the PLSP's if FL clubs voted against the increases to parachute payments for clubs relegated to the Championship a few years ago?
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nicksonmatt
post May 20 2016, 07:12 AM
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Football League clubs always vote no to increasing the Conf promotion places from 2 to 3 so can't see them voting yes for 8 places. (Although I suppose 8 won't go down from L2).


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We Hate Wrexham
post May 20 2016, 07:53 AM
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Premier League B Teams - No
Football league 3 however i don't think will be a bad idea. 20 is the right amount in a league, 24 is more than enough, and it gives us a better shot at getting into the football league when the 8 go up from the National League. By then we could have developed into a top 10 side and competing for promotion.
When 8 go up from our league, whos replacing them?

However there are other things I think they should introduce before all this IMO:
FFP - Why should teams come into this league, bankrolled owner, then theres fan owned teams like us who can't get anywhere as we don't have the money to compete?
3 up 3 down


This post has been edited by We Hate Wrexham: May 20 2016, 07:58 AM
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Lobster
post May 20 2016, 08:15 AM
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QUOTE (We Hate Wrexham @ May 20 2016, 08:53 AM) *
Premier League B Teams - No
Football league 3 however i don't think will be a bad idea. 20 is the right amount in a league, 24 is more than enough, and it gives us a better shot at getting into the football league when the 8 go up from the National League. By then we could have developed into a top 10 side and competing for promotion.
When 8 go up from our league, whos replacing them?

However there are other things I think they should introduce before all this IMO:
FFP - Why should teams come into this league, bankrolled owner, then theres fan owned teams like us who can't get anywhere as we don't have the money to compete?
3 up 3 down


Agree with all that. I would also say that Conference clubs should have a say here as these plans affect us as much as FL clubs, if not more.
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Neil Fishers Big...
post May 20 2016, 08:41 AM
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QUOTE (XWWB @ May 20 2016, 09:15 AM) *
QUOTE (We Hate Wrexham @ May 20 2016, 08:53 AM) *
Premier League B Teams - No
Football league 3 however i don't think will be a bad idea. 20 is the right amount in a league, 24 is more than enough, and it gives us a better shot at getting into the football league when the 8 go up from the National League. By then we could have developed into a top 10 side and competing for promotion.
When 8 go up from our league, whos replacing them?

However there are other things I think they should introduce before all this IMO:
FFP - Why should teams come into this league, bankrolled owner, then theres fan owned teams like us who can't get anywhere as we don't have the money to compete?
3 up 3 down


Agree with all that. I would also say that Conference clubs should have a say here as these plans affect us as much as FL clubs, if not more.

...so just 10 home League games in League at the bottom of the pyramid? No thank you, as the heading says, "I smell a rat!"


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We Hate Wrexham
post May 20 2016, 08:45 AM
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QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ May 20 2016, 09:41 AM) *
QUOTE (XWWB @ May 20 2016, 09:15 AM) *
QUOTE (We Hate Wrexham @ May 20 2016, 08:53 AM) *
Premier League B Teams - No
Football league 3 however i don't think will be a bad idea. 20 is the right amount in a league, 24 is more than enough, and it gives us a better shot at getting into the football league when the 8 go up from the National League. By then we could have developed into a top 10 side and competing for promotion.
When 8 go up from our league, whos replacing them?

However there are other things I think they should introduce before all this IMO:
FFP - Why should teams come into this league, bankrolled owner, then theres fan owned teams like us who can't get anywhere as we don't have the money to compete?
3 up 3 down


Agree with all that. I would also say that Conference clubs should have a say here as these plans affect us as much as FL clubs, if not more.

...so just 10 home League games in League at the bottom of the pyramid? No thank you, as the heading says, "I smell a rat!"


Correct me if I read this wrong - but 10 home league games?? If theres 20 teams in a league, theres 19 home games...
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NorwegianBlue
post May 20 2016, 09:32 AM
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QUOTE (XWWB @ May 19 2016, 09:02 PM) *
I don't think it's a bad idea personally. It would mean more places up for grabs in the League, and 24 teams is too many in a division.

The B Team idea absolutely must be dropped once and for all though - that simply can't happen. I would be interested to hear what the plans are below the 100 as well.



If that was steamrollered through into a system, the only thing fans could do is boycott every match involving a 'B' team.


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Loska's left...
post May 20 2016, 09:34 AM
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I think NFBF was having a senior moment there


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artyfarty
post May 20 2016, 09:48 AM
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QUOTE (waggoner @ May 19 2016, 09:16 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ May 19 2016, 08:33 PM) *
QUOTE (Fathead The Gladiator @ May 19 2016, 06:13 PM) *
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36335384

Where is the detail on how clubs excluded from this '100 club' will access the FL? Not sure I understand the reasons why this is necessary, except to exclude the disturbance of equilibrium.



Under these proposals promotion and relegation between the FL and National League will continue, relegation will only be scrapped for one season, 2018-19, when eight will go up. Though there is no mention of whether it will remain 2 up and 2 down.

The possible inclusion of PL B sides in the FL Trophy must be resisted, it will be of no benefit to anybody except the PL clubs, the same clubs that are already killing the game by taking nearly all of the money going into English football. Who wants watch their club playing a reserve team ? Its an insult to fans of lower division clubs by people who care only about the TV generated revenues that end up in the hands of a rapacious plutocratic football elite of 20 clubs. It could also be a Trojan horse, if by some chance their participation proves to be even a partial success, they may again call for inclusion in the pyramid.

My main concern though, is how will clubs below the Championship cope financially with the loss of 4 home fixtures? Fan owned clubs being most affected by this as they have no financial backers ready to make up the shortfall. 2O clubs might be good for the PL, and viable for the Championship, but it will be financially damaging in the lower 3 divisions, and they continue to rule out regionalising the two lowest divisions, a move which would make sound financial and sporting sense, as more local games attract, greater interest, larger gates, and less travel expense.

i would of thought that doing a league 2 north and south would be a better option surely?. More derbies, less travelling

Hit the nail on the head. The FL are looking at this from completely the wrong angle. IMO, Teams in the lowest FL tier should be regionalized which would make up for the small shortfall in less home matches. In a regionalized league of 20 teams, all midweek games spent traveling up and down the country would be scrapped and all games should be played against local opposition on a Saturday afternoon which "should" attract bigger gates!
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iandyChesterCity
post May 20 2016, 11:46 AM
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I think if you asked the fans, we'd want a regionalised system right up to perhaps League 1 level. It is what they have in other countries - 2-3 national leagues and then regional. it makes financial sense for the clubs and is much better for fans.


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Cmonublues
post May 20 2016, 12:08 PM
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From a selfish point of view, I would not want the leagues to be regionalised. Call me strange, but there is something very satisfying about travelling across the country to support your team, you can get to visit grounds and places you would not otherwise visit. If there are 20 teams in a regionalised league, would the reduced cost of travelling make up for the lost revenue of 4 home games? I would also feel sorry for any exiles living down south who would have to travel a long way to see any game.... A lot of things to consider - is it a case of they are trying to fix something that isn't broken?
Although this isn't related, I think they could change the points system to make for more entertaining games. They could introduce a bonus point for a winning margin of 3 goals or more. Maybe a win for the away team can be worth more points than a home win. More points for a score draw than a goalless draw, etc etc.
A lot of things to consider with the new league system. If they introduce B teams then English football will start to die. Instead of that, why don't the premier league reduce the number of overseas players allowed, insist on having at least two English players under 21 in the match squad and bring young English talent through this way?
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iandyChesterCity
post May 20 2016, 12:25 PM
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Thing is, when you are in the same league for a number of years, its the same SH*TE trips to Dover, Braintree Bore-off wood.


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Juan King
post May 20 2016, 12:35 PM
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Speaking as a football fan, one of the things mentioned in the changes that I would be against is the scrapping of midweek games - I really look forward
to midweek games, it's something to look forward to at the end of a days graft. I'd hate to see them vanish altogether, why not just cut them down and
make them fairly local affairs.


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old boneze
post May 21 2016, 06:14 AM
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Possible scrapping of FA Cup replays, FA Cup games in midweek only, winter break, Premier League B teams in the Football League.
Not designed to help clubs in the Football League or National League.
IMO these proposals are a sop to the Premier League in the hope of getting a few more crumbs in solidarity payments.
If you give in to bullying or blackmail they will return with even more draconian proposals. No promotion/relegation and franchises as per US sports anyone?
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shunter blue
post May 21 2016, 08:06 AM
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I heard them discussing this on Talksport this morning as I got up. They said it was change for change sake and thought that it may be a tool to get the big clubs like Tranmere and Wrexham back among the elite. They concluded that wouldn't it be simpler to just introduce 3 up and 3 down. I applaud that sensible conclusion.
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waggoner
post May 21 2016, 08:11 AM
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QUOTE (Fathead The Gladiator @ May 19 2016, 06:13 PM) *
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36335384

Where is the detail on how clubs excluded from this '100 club' will access the FL? Not sure I understand the reasons why this is necessary, except to exclude the disturbance of equilibrium.

What i read was that no relegation would take place from the conference and '6 other clubs' clubs would gain entry. It does not say that these 'other clubs' would come from the conference, it just says ''the obvious place would be the conference''...i smell a rat too. Something is going on

This post has been edited by waggoner: May 21 2016, 08:39 AM
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post May 21 2016, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE (old boneze @ May 21 2016, 01:14 AM) *
Possible scrapping of FA Cup replays, FA Cup games in midweek only, winter break, Premier League B teams in the Football League.
Not designed to help clubs in the Football League or National League.
IMO these proposals are a sop to the Premier League in the hope of getting a few more crumbs in solidarity payments.
If you give in to bullying or blackmail they will return with even more draconian proposals. No promotion/relegation and franchises as per US sports anyone?

With all the foreign owners in the top two divisions it's hardly a surprise that they don't want the possibility of relegation to the nether reaches of division one!

People in North America can never understand relegation. crying.gif


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Devon Blue
post May 21 2016, 11:40 PM
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QUOTE (Cmonublues @ May 20 2016, 01:08 PM) *
From a selfish point of view, I would not want the leagues to be regionalised. Call me strange, but there is something very satisfying about travelling across the country to support your team, you can get to visit grounds and places you would not otherwise visit. If there are 20 teams in a regionalised league, would the reduced cost of travelling make up for the lost revenue of 4 home games? I would also feel sorry for any exiles living down south who would have to travel a long way to see any game.... A lot of things to consider - is it a case of they are trying to fix something that isn't broken?
Although this isn't related, I think they could change the points system to make for more entertaining games. They could introduce a bonus point for a winning margin of 3 goals or more. Maybe a win for the away team can be worth more points than a home win. More points for a score draw than a goalless draw, etc etc.
A lot of things to consider with the new league system. If they introduce B teams then English football will start to die. Instead of that, why don't the premier league reduce the number of overseas players allowed, insist on having at least two English players under 21 in the match squad and bring young English talent through this way?


On the other hand, a regionalised league would mean that more supporters would be able to afford, and have the time, to travel to the away matches. Good for them and good for the team at the away game.


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post May 22 2016, 10:53 AM
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More dodgy proposals from them up above! They simply don't care about lower league football as long as they can afford there prawn sandwiches and champers!


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Lobster
post May 22 2016, 07:41 PM
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One thing that strikes me watching the current team is how many of them began in the lower leagues, or at least had loan spells there. Vardy's route to the top has been well documented, but you've also got Joe Hart starting at Shrewsbury, Smalling at Maidstone, Stones at Barnsley, Alli at McDons. Kane had loan spells at several lower league clubs, as did Defoe who's been an England regular in recent years.

When Dyke and co. we're making a case for Premier League B teams a few years ago, their main argument was that young English players weren't getting game time. The evidence actually suggests there's a lot to gain from big clubs looking to the lower leagues for talent, and loaning their young players out to teams playing further down the pyramid. The current football league and even non-league is actually supporting the development of young English players pretty well.
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