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3mm
post May 11 2015, 10:56 AM
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So we can all keep track of what they do / don't do... Source: BBC (but copied below in case link goes down in time)

The Conservative Party has a majority in the new Parliament and, in theory, the ability to pass whatever laws it wants. Here are some of the things the party has promised to do.

Key policies
Extra money for the NHS was a key pledge during the election campaign

Many of the party's main pledges were in its manifesto, but some were also made later in the election campaign. The party said it would:

Introduce a law guaranteeing no rise in income tax rates, VAT or national insurance before 2020
Invest an extra £8bn a year for the NHS by 2020
Hold a referendum on membership of the EU by 2017
Open 500 more free schools
Extend the right-to-buy scheme to housing association tenants in England
Build 200,000 starter homes
Ensure all people who work 30 hours per week on the minimum wage pay no income tax
Double free childcare allowance for three and four-year-olds to 30 hours
Increase the inheritance tax threshold on family homes to £1m by 2017
Make sure there are no above-inflation rises in rail fares until 2020

Below are some of the other key pledges made in the party's manifesto
Economy

Running a surplus by 2018
A crackdown on tax evasion and the "aggressive" avoidance of tax
Spending £100bn on infrastructure over the five-year term

Jobs and investment
Rules for strikes will be changed under the party's plans

Achieving full employment by helping businesses create two million extra jobs over the course of the next Parliament
Creating 3 million new apprenticeships
Replacing Jobseeker's Allowance for 18-21 year-olds with a Youth Allowance time-limited to six months. After that, they will have to take an apprenticeship or traineeship or do community work to claim benefits
Requiring 40% of those entitled to take part in strike ballots to vote for a strike before industrial action can be held
Requiring companies with more than 250 employees to publish their gender pay gap - the difference between average pay for male and female employees
Increasing the minimum wage to £6.70 by the autumn and to £8 by the end of the decade
Investing £6.9bn in the UK's research infrastructure up to 2021

Taxation and welfare

Taking everyone who earns less than £12,500 out of income tax
Passing a new law that would mean all those working 30 hours a week and earning the minimum wage will not pay income tax on earnings
Raising the threshold for the 40p rate of tax so that nobody under £50,000 pays the rate
A freeze on working age benefits for two years from April 2016 (exemptions for disability and pensioner benefits)
Lowering the benefit cap from £26,000 to £23,000 (with exemptions for those receiving Disability Living Allowance or the Personal Independence Payment)

Immigration
The party will cap skilled migration from outside the EU at 20,700

Negotiating new EU rules so people will have to be earning in the UK for four years before they can claim tax credits and child benefits
Introducing a four-year residency requirement for social housing for EU migrants
Ending the ability of EU jobseekers to claim any job-seeking benefits
Requiring EU jobseekers who have not found a job within six months to leave
Insisting new EU member states' citizens do not have free movement rights "until their economies have converged much more closely with existing member states"
Cap the level of skilled migration from outside the EU at 20,700
Extend the "deport first, appeal later" principle to cover all immigration appeals and judicial reviews, apart from asylum cases

Education and the NHS
The Tories pledge to give people the right to a named GP

Investing £7bn over the course of the next Parliament to provide "good school places"
Protecting the schools budget; increasing the amount spent on schools as the number of pupils increases
Scrapping the cap on higher education student numbers
Providing same-day GP appointments for over 75s

Heritage, sports and government
The party pledges more powers for the Welsh Assembly

Freeze the BBC licence fee
Guarantee those who work for a big company and the public sector entitlement to Volunteering Leave for three days per year
End taxpayer-funded six-figure pay-offs for the best-paid public sector workers
Reduce number of MPs to 600
Introduce English votes for English laws
Give English MPs a veto over matters only affecting England
Implement the recommendations of the Smith Commission, set up to consider new powers for Scotland after the independence referendum
Increase some powers for the Welsh Assembly
Devolve corporation tax powers to the Northern Ireland Assembly

Justice

Scrap the Human Rights Act, and introduce a British Bill of Rights
Strengthen counter-terrorism powers
Create new Extremism Disruption Orders, which the party says would help target those trying to radicalise young people on social media

Pensions and inheritance

Increasing the inheritance tax threshold for married couples and civil partners to £1m
Continuing to increase the state pension through the triple lock system, meaning it rises by at least 2.5%
Capping charges on residential care
Introducing a single-tier pension

Foreign affairs and defence

Protect the UK economy from further integration with the eurozone while reclaiming other powers from Europe
Uphold commitment to spend 0.7% of gross national income on international development
Maintain the size of the regular armed services and not reduce the Army to below 82,000
Expand armed forces reserves to 35,000
Retain Trident and build a new a new fleet of nuclear submarines

Others

Giving Parliament a free vote on repeal of the Hunting Act
Ending any new public subsidy for onshore wind farms


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mused
post May 11 2015, 02:32 PM
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Lies, lies and more lies. I'd rather nail my b*ll*cks to a burning shed than vote Tories. The problem we've had is the rest don't exactly look up to much either. I wouldn't let the two Ed's run a bath for me and Farage's teeth looked too manky for my liking. Let's just face it, we're f**ked.


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Neil Fishers Big...
post May 11 2015, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (3mm @ May 11 2015, 11:56 AM) *
So we can all keep track of what they do / don't do... Source: BBC (but copied below in case link goes down in time)

The Conservative Party has a majority in the new Parliament and, in theory, the ability to pass whatever laws it wants. Here are some of the things the party has promised to do.

Key policies
Extra money for the NHS was a key pledge during the election campaign

Many of the party's main pledges were in its manifesto, but some were also made later in the election campaign. The party said it would:

Introduce a law guaranteeing no rise in income tax rates, VAT or national insurance before 2020
Invest an extra £8bn a year for the NHS by 2020
Hold a referendum on membership of the EU by 2017
Open 500 more free schools
Extend the right-to-buy scheme to housing association tenants in England
Build 200,000 starter homes
Ensure all people who work 30 hours per week on the minimum wage pay no income tax
Double free childcare allowance for three and four-year-olds to 30 hours
Increase the inheritance tax threshold on family homes to £1m by 2017
Make sure there are no above-inflation rises in rail fares until 2020

Below are some of the other key pledges made in the party's manifesto
Economy

Running a surplus by 2018
A crackdown on tax evasion and the "aggressive" avoidance of tax
Spending £100bn on infrastructure over the five-year term

Jobs and investment
Rules for strikes will be changed under the party's plans

Achieving full employment by helping businesses create two million extra jobs over the course of the next Parliament
Creating 3 million new apprenticeships
Replacing Jobseeker's Allowance for 18-21 year-olds with a Youth Allowance time-limited to six months. After that, they will have to take an apprenticeship or traineeship or do community work to claim benefits
Requiring 40% of those entitled to take part in strike ballots to vote for a strike before industrial action can be held
Requiring companies with more than 250 employees to publish their gender pay gap - the difference between average pay for male and female employees
Increasing the minimum wage to £6.70 by the autumn and to £8 by the end of the decade
Investing £6.9bn in the UK's research infrastructure up to 2021

Taxation and welfare

Taking everyone who earns less than £12,500 out of income tax
Passing a new law that would mean all those working 30 hours a week and earning the minimum wage will not pay income tax on earnings
Raising the threshold for the 40p rate of tax so that nobody under £50,000 pays the rate
A freeze on working age benefits for two years from April 2016 (exemptions for disability and pensioner benefits)
Lowering the benefit cap from £26,000 to £23,000 (with exemptions for those receiving Disability Living Allowance or the Personal Independence Payment)

Immigration
The party will cap skilled migration from outside the EU at 20,700

Negotiating new EU rules so people will have to be earning in the UK for four years before they can claim tax credits and child benefits
Introducing a four-year residency requirement for social housing for EU migrants
Ending the ability of EU jobseekers to claim any job-seeking benefits
Requiring EU jobseekers who have not found a job within six months to leave
Insisting new EU member states' citizens do not have free movement rights "until their economies have converged much more closely with existing member states"
Cap the level of skilled migration from outside the EU at 20,700
Extend the "deport first, appeal later" principle to cover all immigration appeals and judicial reviews, apart from asylum cases

Education and the NHS
The Tories pledge to give people the right to a named GP

Investing £7bn over the course of the next Parliament to provide "good school places"
Protecting the schools budget; increasing the amount spent on schools as the number of pupils increases
Scrapping the cap on higher education student numbers
Providing same-day GP appointments for over 75s

Heritage, sports and government
The party pledges more powers for the Welsh Assembly

Freeze the BBC licence fee
Guarantee those who work for a big company and the public sector entitlement to Volunteering Leave for three days per year
End taxpayer-funded six-figure pay-offs for the best-paid public sector workers
Reduce number of MPs to 600
Introduce English votes for English laws
Give English MPs a veto over matters only affecting England
Implement the recommendations of the Smith Commission, set up to consider new powers for Scotland after the independence referendum
Increase some powers for the Welsh Assembly
Devolve corporation tax powers to the Northern Ireland Assembly

Justice

Scrap the Human Rights Act, and introduce a British Bill of Rights
Strengthen counter-terrorism powers
Create new Extremism Disruption Orders, which the party says would help target those trying to radicalise young people on social media

Pensions and inheritance

Increasing the inheritance tax threshold for married couples and civil partners to £1m
Continuing to increase the state pension through the triple lock system, meaning it rises by at least 2.5%
Capping charges on residential care
Introducing a single-tier pension

Foreign affairs and defence

Protect the UK economy from further integration with the eurozone while reclaiming other powers from Europe
Uphold commitment to spend 0.7% of gross national income on international development
Maintain the size of the regular armed services and not reduce the Army to below 82,000
Expand armed forces reserves to 35,000
Retain Trident and build a new a new fleet of nuclear submarines

Others

Giving Parliament a free vote on repeal of the Hunting Act
Ending any new public subsidy for onshore wind farms

You can go back decades in time to find numerous broken promises by ALL governments, i remember pre-election in the 1960s Harold Wison visiting a factory were the TSR 2 fighter was being made, saying " You jobs will be safe under Labour!"
Won the Election,and promptly cancelled the government contract for the aeroplane putting them all out of work.
I am sure someone on here will find plenty of Conservative broken promises to.
Of course,everyone remembers Nick Cleggs promise on tuition fees, of course it was an easy pledge for him to make, because he never thought he would have would have to implement it!
But another thing,3mm you really have too much time on your hands,you must get out more! biggrin.gif


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shunter blue
post May 12 2015, 11:58 AM
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Thanks for putting those up 3mm. I hope you can remind us as we go along which ones they've broken right the way up til May 2020 as I suspect that to be a big list. I bumped into someone at Aldi this morning and he said, "look on the bright side, every day that passes is one less of these w****rs". I also hope that new Chester MP Chris Matheson (hope that's right) gets behind the Blues and is not a photo opportunity glory hunter like the previous MP.
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Neil Fishers Big...
post May 12 2015, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE (shunter blue @ May 12 2015, 12:58 PM) *
Thanks for putting those up 3mm. I hope you can remind us as we go along which ones they've broken right the way up til May 2020 as I suspect that to be a big list. I bumped into someone at Aldi this morning and he said, "look on the bright side, every day that passes is one less of these w****rs". I also hope that new Chester MP Chris Matheson (hope that's right) gets behind the Blues and is not a photo opportunity glory hunter like the previous MP.

Oh don't worry shunter, he will! He will be monitoring it every day ready to pounce!
Interesting to see that even Milliblands brother has told him he took the wrong course, along with other luminaries of the Labour Party, pity they didn't speak up before,and then you may have all got your wish! biggrin.gif
Not that Eds worried,he's gone to Ibiza for a month!
But also the fury from the left at the Democratic will of the people doesn't abate, from the riots and defacing of War memorials, they have now flooded the Internet with a picture of boxes of Moët champagne being delivered to No. 10.
"Tory austerity in all its glory" is the accompanying text, but there is just one snag,the picture,it turns out was taken in 2004 and being delivered to Gordon Brown!
To coin a phrase,you couldn't make it up, and I think it's about time I took a rest from keeping up with all you left wing warriors on here and spend my time on something useful, thats unless less somebody else winds me up! tongue.gif


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3mm
post May 12 2015, 01:30 PM
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Quite right, it was a couple of cases of reassuringly expensive Bollinger that were delivered to Downing Street after the recent election, none of that cheap Moet rubbish.

It's going to be fun watching the tories try to convince everybody they are now the party of the people. I'll not be convinced until the day the Duke of Westminster openly declares his love and support of the Labour Party because the Conservatives have deserted him and the rest of this country's well-off-toffs, ie. the real winners in last weeks election.

Chin chin guiness.gif


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Midnight Rider
post May 13 2015, 07:53 PM
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You lefties are really poor losers.




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Neil Fishers Big...
post May 13 2015, 10:22 PM
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QUOTE (3mm @ May 12 2015, 02:30 PM) *
Quite right, it was a couple of cases of reassuringly expensive Bollinger that were delivered to Downing Street after the recent election, none of that cheap Moet rubbish.

It's going to be fun watching the tories try to convince everybody they are now the party of the people. I'll not be convinced until the day the Duke of Westminster openly declares his love and support of the Labour Party because the Conservatives have deserted him and the rest of this country's well-off-toffs, ie. the real winners in last weeks election.

Chin chin guiness.gif

I think you will find that photograph was taken years ago,and in fact was a delivery to Gordon Brown.


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sealandkopite
post May 13 2015, 10:40 PM
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Only a couple of things certain in the next five years,

The poorest will be hammered and more breaks given to the rich.

Public sector workers will see virtually zero pay rises and won't be able to anything about it given the governments rush to bring in new strike legislation.

So for the next five years can you please not be any of the following:

Poor

Ill

Reliant on benefits due to age or Ill health

A nurse or fireman saving peoples lives with no rewards
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3mm
post May 14 2015, 10:48 AM
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QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ May 13 2015, 11:22 PM) *
QUOTE (3mm @ May 12 2015, 02:30 PM) *
Quite right, it was a couple of cases of reassuringly expensive Bollinger that were delivered to Downing Street after the recent election, none of that cheap Moet rubbish.

It's going to be fun watching the tories try to convince everybody they are now the party of the people. I'll not be convinced until the day the Duke of Westminster openly declares his love and support of the Labour Party because the Conservatives have deserted him and the rest of this country's well-off-toffs, ie. the real winners in last weeks election.

Chin chin guiness.gif

I think you will find that photograph was taken years ago,and in fact was a delivery to Gordon Brown.

Are you denying that Bollinger was delivered to no 10 recently then? smile.gif


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Neil Fishers Big...
post May 14 2015, 12:52 PM
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QUOTE (3mm @ May 14 2015, 11:48 AM) *
QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ May 13 2015, 11:22 PM) *
QUOTE (3mm @ May 12 2015, 02:30 PM) *
Quite right, it was a couple of cases of reassuringly expensive Bollinger that were delivered to Downing Street after the recent election, none of that cheap Moet rubbish.

It's going to be fun watching the tories try to convince everybody they are now the party of the people. I'll not be convinced until the day the Duke of Westminster openly declares his love and support of the Labour Party because the Conservatives have deserted him and the rest of this country's well-off-toffs, ie. the real winners in last weeks election.

Chin chin guiness.gif

I think you will find that photograph was taken years ago,and in fact was a delivery to Gordon Brown.

Are you denying that Bollinger was delivered to no 10 recently then? smile.gif

I wouldn't dare contradict you 3mm because I'm sure you will show me the proof if it's true,but there was a photo of champaign being delivered to No.10 which was on a Left Wing Blog,which turned out to have been taken years ago and in fact was being delivered to Gordon Brown.
So you know me 3mm,I always bow down to superior knowledge,and after our trip to the Cathedral I'm putting you up for "Chester Historian" after all the interesting historical facts about Chester you kept on coming out with!
Glad to hear this morning that the PM is recommending MPs NOT to impiment a pay raise to themselves which is good to see,I'm sure you will agree. biggrin.gif


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post May 14 2015, 12:54 PM
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QUOTE (3mm @ May 11 2015, 11:56 AM) *
Introduce a law guaranteeing no rise in income tax rates, VAT or national insurance before 2020


Now this has got to be the most stupid pledge ever made. Irrespective of what happens - earthquakes, stock market crashes, war, flood, pestilence, zombies walking the earth, - the government has said that under no circumstances will these taxes go up in the next five years. Dumb.
I give this one less than a year before we get the fiddles - stealth taxes, not linking allowances to inflation, withdrawing funding from councils who then jack up the council tax etc. - and three years before it is unequivocally broken.




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post May 15 2015, 09:34 PM
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EU will make Tories implode.....75% of them want to stay in and 25% don't.....Cameron will not get what he wants from Europe........boom...
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Derry Blue
post May 16 2015, 08:52 AM
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QUOTE (Scrabble @ May 15 2015, 10:34 PM) *
EU will make Tories implode.....75% of them want to stay in and 25% don't.....Cameron will not get what he wants from Europe........boom...

It won't matter. The Labour Party will choose another loser as its leader, so no matter what happens they'll remain unelectable.
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3mm
post May 17 2015, 09:22 PM
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QUOTE (Derry Blue @ May 16 2015, 09:52 AM) *
QUOTE (Scrabble @ May 15 2015, 10:34 PM) *
EU will make Tories implode.....75% of them want to stay in and 25% don't.....Cameron will not get what he wants from Europe........boom...

It won't matter. The Labour Party will choose another loser as its leader, so no matter what happens they'll remain unelectable.

I'll bet in your book there's never been a good Labour leader and there's never been a bad Conservative one.


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Derry Blue
post May 18 2015, 09:47 AM
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QUOTE (3mm @ May 17 2015, 10:22 PM) *
QUOTE (Derry Blue @ May 16 2015, 09:52 AM) *
QUOTE (Scrabble @ May 15 2015, 10:34 PM) *
EU will make Tories implode.....75% of them want to stay in and 25% don't.....Cameron will not get what he wants from Europe........boom...

It won't matter. The Labour Party will choose another loser as its leader, so no matter what happens they'll remain unelectable.

I'll bet in your book there's never been a good Labour leader and there's never been a bad Conservative one.

Sorry to disagree. Ted Heath was a bloody awful leader and William Hague wasn't much better. In fact, I don't rate Cameron But compared to 'wrong brother' they're political giants.
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post May 18 2015, 11:22 AM
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Have to say, Labour aren't filling me with confidence or excitement at the moment. They seem to be a totally confused party in the wake of the election, with all sorts of comments coming out about them not appealing to the middle classes enough, or being too left wing or right wing.

The way I see it, behind every party is an ideology, and it's not the job of the party to pander to various demographics, it's their job to convince the electorate that their ideology is the best one and the one most worth voting for. I will never vote Conservative, because my views are not conservative. Every opinion poll and survey I do tells me that the Tories are the last party I should vote for, even behind the likes of UKIP. If the Conservative Party was to change its policies and become in line with what I believe, it would cease to be conservative and would therefore represent very little, so it still wouldn't get my vote.

So if the Labour Party can't decide on what "direction" it wants to take, I don't really see the point in it. The Greens now more closely represent Old Labour, and if the party moves any further to the right, it's hardly the Labour Party anymore.
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Neil Fishers Big...
post May 18 2015, 02:39 PM
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QUOTE (XWWB @ May 18 2015, 12:22 PM) *
Have to say, Labour aren't filling me with confidence or excitement at the moment. They seem to be a totally confused party in the wake of the election, with all sorts of comments coming out about them not appealing to the middle classes enough, or being too left wing or right wing.

The way I see it, behind every party is an ideology, and it's not the job of the party to pander to various demographics, it's their job to convince the electorate that their ideology is the best one and the one most worth voting for. I will never vote Conservative, because my views are not conservative. Every opinion poll and survey I do tells me that the Tories are the last party I should vote for, even behind the likes of UKIP. If the Conservative Party was to change its policies and become in line with what I believe, it would cease to be conservative and would therefore represent very little, so it still wouldn't get my vote.

So if the Labour Party can't decide on what "direction" it wants to take, I don't really see the point in it. The Greens now more closely represent Old Labour, and if the party moves any further to the right, it's hardly the Labour Party anymore.

Do you really need an opinion poll and a survey to decide who to vote for XWWB?
It is really amazing that Labour are still appearing to favour a Left Wing agenda and leader when the country has so firmly rejected it. Now even all Millibands "colleagues" are rejecting his manifesto.
When you see a Union leader coming out and saying what leader HE wants and what agenda HE wants implementing,you really do despair,didn't the Labour Party not learn anything from the 70's?
Even Tony Blair rejected the "Left way "and convinced the country that the middle way was the way to go, by winning three elections!
The country needs a good and vigorous opposition in parliament to keep the government on its toes,so that the country can see that there is an alternative to the sitting government,not an opposition divided so much between the Left and the Right.


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Lobster
post May 18 2015, 04:44 PM
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QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ May 18 2015, 03:39 PM) *
QUOTE (XWWB @ May 18 2015, 12:22 PM) *
Have to say, Labour aren't filling me with confidence or excitement at the moment. They seem to be a totally confused party in the wake of the election, with all sorts of comments coming out about them not appealing to the middle classes enough, or being too left wing or right wing.

The way I see it, behind every party is an ideology, and it's not the job of the party to pander to various demographics, it's their job to convince the electorate that their ideology is the best one and the one most worth voting for. I will never vote Conservative, because my views are not conservative. Every opinion poll and survey I do tells me that the Tories are the last party I should vote for, even behind the likes of UKIP. If the Conservative Party was to change its policies and become in line with what I believe, it would cease to be conservative and would therefore represent very little, so it still wouldn't get my vote.

So if the Labour Party can't decide on what "direction" it wants to take, I don't really see the point in it. The Greens now more closely represent Old Labour, and if the party moves any further to the right, it's hardly the Labour Party anymore.

Do you really need an opinion poll and a survey to decide who to vote for XWWB?
It is really amazing that Labour are still appearing to favour a Left Wing agenda and leader when the country has so firmly rejected it. Now even all Millibands "colleagues" are rejecting his manifesto.
When you see a Union leader coming out and saying what leader HE wants and what agenda HE wants implementing,you really do despair,didn't the Labour Party not learn anything from the 70's?
Even Tony Blair rejected the "Left way "and convinced the country that the middle way was the way to go, by winning three elections!
The country needs a good and vigorous opposition in parliament to keep the government on its toes,so that the country can see that there is an alternative to the sitting government,not an opposition divided so much between the Left and the Right.


I don't need a survey, but it's interesting to take them and confirm what I suspect.

And I disagree, Labour should be left wing in the same way that the Conservatives should be right wing. If parties are going to swing back and forth willy-nilly, what's the point in them? I'm a little confused by your stance on this, because you criticise any Labour MP who displays non-socialist values, but at the same time you suggest they should move away from the left.

And really, the country hasn't "firmly rejected" Labour. The vote was roughly 36% Conversative and 30% Labour - that's about six Tory voters for every five Labour. If Labour get their act together, and the Conservatives let people down in the way I expect they will, it's not unthinkable that things could change in five years' time.
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Midnight Rider
post May 18 2015, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE (Midnight Rider @ May 18 2015, 08:57 PM) *
QUOTE (XWWB @ May 18 2015, 12:22 PM) *
I will never vote Conservative, because my views are not conservative. Every opinion poll and survey I do tells me that the Tories are the last party I should vote for, even behind the likes of UKIP. If the Conservative Party was to change its policies and become in line with what I believe, it would cease to be conservative and would therefore represent very little, so it still wouldn't get my vote.


You rule out the possibility that your views will change.



--------------------
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood...who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” - Teddy Roosevelt.
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mused
post May 18 2015, 08:12 PM
Post #21


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QUOTE (Midnight Rider @ May 18 2015, 09:09 PM) *
QUOTE (Midnight Rider @ May 18 2015, 08:57 PM) *
QUOTE (XWWB @ May 18 2015, 12:22 PM) *
I will never vote Conservative, because my views are not conservative. Every opinion poll and survey I do tells me that the Tories are the last party I should vote for, even behind the likes of UKIP. If the Conservative Party was to change its policies and become in line with what I believe, it would cease to be conservative and would therefore represent very little, so it still wouldn't get my vote.


You rule out the possibility that your views will change.


I'm with XWWB. Voting conservative would go against everything I have lived for. They aren't going to ever change their policies and neither am I!


--------------------
If I had the wings of a sparrow. If I had the a**e of a crow. I'd fly over Wr**h*m tomorrow and s**t on the bastards below, below!
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Neil Fishers Big...
post May 18 2015, 09:20 PM
Post #22


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From: Penymynydd
Member No.: 2595



QUOTE (XWWB @ May 18 2015, 05:44 PM) *
QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ May 18 2015, 03:39 PM) *
QUOTE (XWWB @ May 18 2015, 12:22 PM) *
Have to say, Labour aren't filling me with confidence or excitement at the moment. They seem to be a totally confused party in the wake of the election, with all sorts of comments coming out about them not appealing to the middle classes enough, or being too left wing or right wing.

The way I see it, behind every party is an ideology, and it's not the job of the party to pander to various demographics, it's their job to convince the electorate that their ideology is the best one and the one most worth voting for. I will never vote Conservative, because my views are not conservative. Every opinion poll and survey I do tells me that the Tories are the last party I should vote for, even behind the likes of UKIP. If the Conservative Party was to change its policies and become in line with what I believe, it would cease to be conservative and would therefore represent very little, so it still wouldn't get my vote.

So if the Labour Party can't decide on what "direction" it wants to take, I don't really see the point in it. The Greens now more closely represent Old Labour, and if the party moves any further to the right, it's hardly the Labour Party anymore.

Do you really need an opinion poll and a survey to decide who to vote for XWWB?
It is really amazing that Labour are still appearing to favour a Left Wing agenda and leader when the country has so firmly rejected it. Now even all Millibands "colleagues" are rejecting his manifesto.
When you see a Union leader coming out and saying what leader HE wants and what agenda HE wants implementing,you really do despair,didn't the Labour Party not learn anything from the 70's?
Even Tony Blair rejected the "Left way "and convinced the country that the middle way was the way to go, by winning three elections!
The country needs a good and vigorous opposition in parliament to keep the government on its toes,so that the country can see that there is an alternative to the sitting government,not an opposition divided so much between the Left and the Right.


I don't need a survey, but it's interesting to take them and confirm what I suspect.

And I disagree, Labour should be left wing in the same way that the Conservatives should be right wing. If parties are going to swing back and forth willy-nilly, what's the point in them? I'm a little confused by your stance on this, because you criticise any Labour MP who displays non-socialist values, but at the same time you suggest they should move away from the left.

And really, the country hasn't "firmly rejected" Labour. The vote was roughly 36% Conversative and 30% Labour - that's about six Tory voters for every five Labour. If Labour get their act together, and the Conservatives let people down in the way I expect they will, it's not unthinkable that things could change in five years' time.

I don't think we want an extreme Right Wing Conservative government any more than we want a Left Wing Labour government.
As far as percentages are concerned,that's the system we have I'm afraid,Tony Blairs governments showed similar percentages.
The fact is that the Conservatives won nearly 100 more seats than Labour under the present voting system
I take your point XWWB about my views,my opinion is,whether it's Right or Left,I don't know,but I find it hypocritical to oppose private fee paying schooling,but to have benefited from it,I don't agree that entitles you to say,because of it they formed their point of view,take Tony Benn always against private education,but that didn't stop him sending his son to a fee paying school,coming from such a darling of the Left,that is crashing hypocrisy.Diane Abbot a hard Left Winger did the same with her son,saying " I wanted the best education I could get for him" that is breathtaking hypocrisy, and of course the current acting Labour leader,an aristocrat,is of course another product
of private education.
Of course we are never going to agree are we,I'm slightly confused like you about your support for the Greens,as you are, I know, a very intelligent bloke,do you really stand by everything in the Green Party manifesto? biggrin.gif


--------------------
NEIL FISHER I AM NOT WORTHY
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Lobster
post May 19 2015, 11:51 AM
Post #23


Just one fool among the shower
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Group: DC Donatees
Posts: 21124
Joined: 26-February 03
From: Wirral
Member No.: 203



QUOTE (Midnight Rider @ May 18 2015, 09:09 PM) *
QUOTE (Midnight Rider @ May 18 2015, 08:57 PM) *
QUOTE (XWWB @ May 18 2015, 12:22 PM) *
I will never vote Conservative, because my views are not conservative. Every opinion poll and survey I do tells me that the Tories are the last party I should vote for, even behind the likes of UKIP. If the Conservative Party was to change its policies and become in line with what I believe, it would cease to be conservative and would therefore represent very little, so it still wouldn't get my vote.


You rule out the possibility that your views will change.



That's true, but the point still remains that parties should try to bring me round to their way of thinking, not sell out their principles to appeal to my existing beliefs.
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Lobster
post May 19 2015, 11:55 AM
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Joined: 26-February 03
From: Wirral
Member No.: 203



QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ May 18 2015, 10:20 PM) *
QUOTE (XWWB @ May 18 2015, 05:44 PM) *
QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ May 18 2015, 03:39 PM) *
QUOTE (XWWB @ May 18 2015, 12:22 PM) *
Have to say, Labour aren't filling me with confidence or excitement at the moment. They seem to be a totally confused party in the wake of the election, with all sorts of comments coming out about them not appealing to the middle classes enough, or being too left wing or right wing.

The way I see it, behind every party is an ideology, and it's not the job of the party to pander to various demographics, it's their job to convince the electorate that their ideology is the best one and the one most worth voting for. I will never vote Conservative, because my views are not conservative. Every opinion poll and survey I do tells me that the Tories are the last party I should vote for, even behind the likes of UKIP. If the Conservative Party was to change its policies and become in line with what I believe, it would cease to be conservative and would therefore represent very little, so it still wouldn't get my vote.

So if the Labour Party can't decide on what "direction" it wants to take, I don't really see the point in it. The Greens now more closely represent Old Labour, and if the party moves any further to the right, it's hardly the Labour Party anymore.

Do you really need an opinion poll and a survey to decide who to vote for XWWB?
It is really amazing that Labour are still appearing to favour a Left Wing agenda and leader when the country has so firmly rejected it. Now even all Millibands "colleagues" are rejecting his manifesto.
When you see a Union leader coming out and saying what leader HE wants and what agenda HE wants implementing,you really do despair,didn't the Labour Party not learn anything from the 70's?
Even Tony Blair rejected the "Left way "and convinced the country that the middle way was the way to go, by winning three elections!
The country needs a good and vigorous opposition in parliament to keep the government on its toes,so that the country can see that there is an alternative to the sitting government,not an opposition divided so much between the Left and the Right.


I don't need a survey, but it's interesting to take them and confirm what I suspect.

And I disagree, Labour should be left wing in the same way that the Conservatives should be right wing. If parties are going to swing back and forth willy-nilly, what's the point in them? I'm a little confused by your stance on this, because you criticise any Labour MP who displays non-socialist values, but at the same time you suggest they should move away from the left.

And really, the country hasn't "firmly rejected" Labour. The vote was roughly 36% Conversative and 30% Labour - that's about six Tory voters for every five Labour. If Labour get their act together, and the Conservatives let people down in the way I expect they will, it's not unthinkable that things could change in five years' time.

I don't think we want an extreme Right Wing Conservative government any more than we want a Left Wing Labour government.
As far as percentages are concerned,that's the system we have I'm afraid,Tony Blairs governments showed similar percentages.
The fact is that the Conservatives won nearly 100 more seats than Labour under the present voting system
I take your point XWWB about my views,my opinion is,whether it's Right or Left,I don't know,but I find it hypocritical to oppose private fee paying schooling,but to have benefited from it,I don't agree that entitles you to say,because of it they formed their point of view,take Tony Benn always against private education,but that didn't stop him sending his son to a fee paying school,coming from such a darling of the Left,that is crashing hypocrisy.Diane Abbot a hard Left Winger did the same with her son,saying " I wanted the best education I could get for him" that is breathtaking hypocrisy, and of course the current acting Labour leader,an aristocrat,is of course another product
of private education.
Of course we are never going to agree are we,I'm slightly confused like you about your support for the Greens,as you are, I know, a very intelligent bloke,do you really stand by everything in the Green Party manifesto? biggrin.gif


I agree that it seems hypocritical for somebody who claims to be a socialist to send their kids to a private school, but completely disagree that going to a private school as a child - a decision made by your parents - means you don't have a right to be against private school as an adult.
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Neil Fishers Big...
post May 19 2015, 01:23 PM
Post #25


Club Director
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Group: DC Donatees
Posts: 19824
Joined: 27-August 06
From: Penymynydd
Member No.: 2595



QUOTE (XWWB @ May 19 2015, 12:55 PM) *
QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ May 18 2015, 10:20 PM) *
QUOTE (XWWB @ May 18 2015, 05:44 PM) *
QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ May 18 2015, 03:39 PM) *
QUOTE (XWWB @ May 18 2015, 12:22 PM) *
Have to say, Labour aren't filling me with confidence or excitement at the moment. They seem to be a totally confused party in the wake of the election, with all sorts of comments coming out about them not appealing to the middle classes enough, or being too left wing or right wing.

The way I see it, behind every party is an ideology, and it's not the job of the party to pander to various demographics, it's their job to convince the electorate that their ideology is the best one and the one most worth voting for. I will never vote Conservative, because my views are not conservative. Every opinion poll and survey I do tells me that the Tories are the last party I should vote for, even behind the likes of UKIP. If the Conservative Party was to change its policies and become in line with what I believe, it would cease to be conservative and would therefore represent very little, so it still wouldn't get my vote.

So if the Labour Party can't decide on what "direction" it wants to take, I don't really see the point in it. The Greens now more closely represent Old Labour, and if the party moves any further to the right, it's hardly the Labour Party anymore.

Do you really need an opinion poll and a survey to decide who to vote for XWWB?
It is really amazing that Labour are still appearing to favour a Left Wing agenda and leader when the country has so firmly rejected it. Now even all Millibands "colleagues" are rejecting his manifesto.
When you see a Union leader coming out and saying what leader HE wants and what agenda HE wants implementing,you really do despair,didn't the Labour Party not learn anything from the 70's?
Even Tony Blair rejected the "Left way "and convinced the country that the middle way was the way to go, by winning three elections!
The country needs a good and vigorous opposition in parliament to keep the government on its toes,so that the country can see that there is an alternative to the sitting government,not an opposition divided so much between the Left and the Right.


I don't need a survey, but it's interesting to take them and confirm what I suspect.

And I disagree, Labour should be left wing in the same way that the Conservatives should be right wing. If parties are going to swing back and forth willy-nilly, what's the point in them? I'm a little confused by your stance on this, because you criticise any Labour MP who displays non-socialist values, but at the same time you suggest they should move away from the left.

And really, the country hasn't "firmly rejected" Labour. The vote was roughly 36% Conversative and 30% Labour - that's about six Tory voters for every five Labour. If Labour get their act together, and the Conservatives let people down in the way I expect they will, it's not unthinkable that things could change in five years' time.

I don't think we want an extreme Right Wing Conservative government any more than we want a Left Wing Labour government.
As far as percentages are concerned,that's the system we have I'm afraid,Tony Blairs governments showed similar percentages.
The fact is that the Conservatives won nearly 100 more seats than Labour under the present voting system
I take your point XWWB about my views,my opinion is,whether it's Right or Left,I don't know,but I find it hypocritical to oppose private fee paying schooling,but to have benefited from it,I don't agree that entitles you to say,because of it they formed their point of view,take Tony Benn always against private education,but that didn't stop him sending his son to a fee paying school,coming from such a darling of the Left,that is crashing hypocrisy.Diane Abbot a hard Left Winger did the same with her son,saying " I wanted the best education I could get for him" that is breathtaking hypocrisy, and of course the current acting Labour leader,an aristocrat,is of course another product
of private education.
Of course we are never going to agree are we,I'm slightly confused like you about your support for the Greens,as you are, I know, a very intelligent bloke,do you really stand by everything in the Green Party manifesto? biggrin.gif


I agree that it seems hypocritical for somebody who claims to be a socialist to send their kids to a private school, but completely disagree that going to a private school as a child - a decision made by your parents - means you don't have a right to be against private school as an adult.

I think I will let you have that one XWWB! biggrin.gif


--------------------
NEIL FISHER I AM NOT WORTHY
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