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shunter blue
post Sep 12 2015, 07:33 PM
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I'm 65 and it seems I will be 75 at the earliest that we can get rid of the nasty party. I don't buy into Harriet Harman's assertion the the election process was robust. We've now devised a method of selecting an unelectable leader of the party after the unions dominated process selected the unelectable Milliband brother. A mere 100,000 deluded voters chose Corbyn (less than half of 1% of the electorate). New Labour were elected because they appealled to Middle England. Will Corbyn appeal to the same section of the electorate ...... no of course he won't. Labour's heartland in Northern England, London and a few sporadic oases in the rest of the country will shrink even further.
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shunter blue
post Sep 12 2015, 07:37 PM
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Not in my opinion.

The last 2 posts I've tried to submit on this topic have both been deleted.

Why?
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3mm
post Sep 12 2015, 07:48 PM
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Q1. Don't know

Q2. Don't know


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3mm
post Sep 12 2015, 07:50 PM
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Re your thread / comment in Off Topic... found one of them!


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shunter blue
post Sep 12 2015, 08:02 PM
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How did transmute to the football forum?
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3mm
post Sep 12 2015, 08:06 PM
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No idea, but what I'll do is move this thread and join it up with the one in Off-Topic




Edit: Done. Both threads are now joined together in Off Topic.


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1midfield genera...
post Sep 12 2015, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE (shunter blue @ Sep 12 2015, 08:33 PM) *
I'm 65 and it seems I will be 75 at the earliest that we can get rid of the nasty party. I don't buy into Harriet Harman's assertion the the election process was robust. We've now devised a method of selecting an unelectable leader of the party after the unions dominated process selected the unelectable Milliband brother. A mere 100,000 deluded voters chose Corbyn (less than half of 1% of the electorate). New Labour were elected because they appealled to Middle England. Will Corbyn appeal to the same section of the electorate ...... no of course he won't. Labour's heartland in Northern England, London and a few sporadic oases in the rest of the country will shrink even further.



Quite simply 'why vote for the shout, when you can vote for the scream'. The choice at the last General Election, was the choice between Austerity or Austerity light.
It was the only time that, I had serious reservations, about voting Labour and toyed with voting Green.
What Corbyn offers is a real alternative and who says he is unelectable? The Tory press?
I would say it is 50/50 that, the economy will face a melt down, either by shocks coming from the Chinese market or a recession, brought on by a UK exit from the E.U. .
Actually, it is the economically illiterate Osbourne, who is the real threat to economic growth.
After, 7 years of Austerity, the deficit is growing and the economy is still, in emergency measures.
The U.S.A never bothered with Austerity and took a Keynesian, view that economic growth was more important, than deficit reduction.
The consequence, is that the U.S economy has grown twice as fast as the UK and Europe. So Corbynomics has some validity.
Also, when asked the so-called General public, shows massive support for the Re-Nationalisation of the Railways and Major electricity companies.
Also, I social house building programme, would have widespread support, when owning a house for many is beyond aspirational.
The Tory press must also be worried because their influence, is being watered down, by the rise of social media.
Twitter had something like 12 million hits for Corbyn and this is why the Blairists and the Media establishment, couldn't land a punch on him.
Very interesting times are ahead and as a socialist, I am delighted.
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shunter blue
post Sep 13 2015, 07:21 AM
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QUOTE (1midfield general @ Sep 12 2015, 11:09 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Sep 12 2015, 08:33 PM) *
I'm 65 and it seems I will be 75 at the earliest that we can get rid of the nasty party. I don't buy into Harriet Harman's assertion the the election process was robust. We've now devised a method of selecting an unelectable leader of the party after the unions dominated process selected the unelectable Milliband brother. A mere 100,000 deluded voters chose Corbyn (less than half of 1% of the electorate). New Labour were elected because they appealled to Middle England. Will Corbyn appeal to the same section of the electorate ...... no of course he won't. Labour's heartland in Northern England, London and a few sporadic oases in the rest of the country will shrink even further.



Quite simply 'why vote for the shout, when you can vote for the scream'. The choice at the last General Election, was the choice between Austerity or Austerity light.
It was the only time that, I had serious reservations, about voting Labour and toyed with voting Green.
What Corbyn offers is a real alternative and who says he is unelectable? The Tory press?
I would say it is 50/50 that, the economy will face a melt down, either by shocks coming from the Chinese market or a recession, brought on by a UK exit from the E.U. .
Actually, it is the economically illiterate Osbourne, who is the real threat to economic growth.
After, 7 years of Austerity, the deficit is growing and the economy is still, in emergency measures.
The U.S.A never bothered with Austerity and took a Keynesian, view that economic growth was more important, than deficit reduction.
The consequence, is that the U.S economy has grown twice as fast as the UK and Europe. So Corbynomics has some validity.
Also, when asked the so-called General public, shows massive support for the Re-Nationalisation of the Railways and Major electricity companies.
Also, I social house building programme, would have widespread support, when owning a house for many is beyond aspirational.
The Tory press must also be worried because their influence, is being watered down, by the rise of social media.
Twitter had something like 12 million hits for Corbyn and this is why the Blairists and the Media establishment, couldn't land a punch on him.
Very interesting times are ahead and as a socialist, I am delighted.

I agree with all of that, but are Middle England going to vote for someone who looks as though he's been brought in off a park bench. I want the racist, poverty creating, zero-hour loving scum Tories as far away from Government as possible, but most people south of Birmingham believe the lying, scare-mongering Murdoch Tory press.
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post Sep 13 2015, 07:59 AM
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The Labour/Tory divide is not much North/South as urban/rural. Most of inner London is Labour, and so are big cities and towns like Bristol, Portsmouth and Exeter. Meanwhile, some real Tory strongholds are in Cheshire and North Yorkshire.

You're probably right, I suspect this has killed the chance of a Labour PM, but I think parties shouldn't just appoint the candidate most likely to win an election, but the one that best reflects the views and ideology of the party and most of its voters, and that's certainly Corbyn. The more important matter in my opinion is to push for electoral reform. The last election showed what a divided set of voters we are, and it makes no sense for a party that got barely a third of the votes to be seen as a runaway winner.
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shunter blue
post Sep 13 2015, 08:08 AM
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QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Sep 13 2015, 02:36 AM) *
Labour’s coming home!

The Man

Jeremy Corbyn is a modest, ordinary bloke; he is a principled conviction politician who has never engaged in spin or focus group politics, and is not self image obsessed as is the norm in Westminster these days. He is authentic. Not for him the ad-hominem personal attacks on those with a different political standpoint. At a time when the memory of MPs expenses scandal is still fresh in our minds, Corbyn is consistently at the bottom end of the expenses league table in parliament. He has been a tireless advocate of the policy agenda that he now brings to the Labour leadership; he never once wavered in his determination not to accept the adoption of the ideology of Labour’s Tory opponents, neoliberalism. He is, in many ways, reminiscent of Clement Attlee, in not being a charismatic orator, he lets the ideas and principles he espouses do the persuading. No blame for the mistakes of Blair and Brown can be attached to Corbyn, as he opposed them all.

Hope, Not Despair or Sellout

It has been clear for sometime that there is a huge appetite in the UK for real change. The rise of UKIP, the SNP landslide, and the rising support for the Green Party. More than that is the growing national scepticism about the Westminster political elites. We have heard endless interviews with younger people that that say why vote? ‘They are all the same’ they usually said. Well they are not now! In 1979 the electorate took a chance on Thatcher because they desperatly wanted change, well the same is true now, neoliberalism has failed all but the top 1%, we need real change, we need hope.

New (Neoliberal) Labour have been a disaster for the Labour movement, you cannot expect to win by borrowing your opponents ideology and making compassionate platitudes about austerity lite. There is no example anywhere, at any time that austerity has ever worked.

Ageism has been effectively rained in regarding older people, but has become ubiquitous where the under 25s are concerned, lower minimum wage, excluded from the new ‘living wage, excluded from housing benefit, saddled with huge debts at university by politicians that got there education for free, and soon to be worse as maintenance grants become loans next year. It is the young that have been the most enthusiastic followers of Corbyn. Labour do not need Tory votes, they need the disaffected young to vote, and to gain votes from the Greens, SNP, PC, and UKIP, and to get back the vote of older left wing voters that deserted Labour in increasing numbers since the new labour coup in 1994.

New Labour is now consigned to the dustbin of history, and good riddance! Why would anybody vote for a Tory lite, pro austerity, neoliberal party, when the genuine article, the Tory party is a natural home for those that believe in those agendas? I would rather the Labour party was wound up than sully its proud history with more of the Tory lite, neo liberal nonsense that they presented us with at the last few elections.

The greatest benefit of Labour offering a real choice is that is will give the lie to the there is no alternative (TINA) brigade, not just the Tories, but at the top of the Labour Party since Blair took over in 1994. Even those that disagree with democratic socialism will have to except that there is an achievable and credible alternative to Austerity, along with Neo-Classical economics, and the Neoliberal ideology that has been built around its premises, most of which are as solid as castles in the sand. Neo classical economic models do not even factor in private debt, the cause of the 2007/8 crash, no wonder they failed to see it coming! Only Neo claassical economics lead to truly global financial crashes in the last 100 years, 1929 & 2007/8, no crash occured during the post WW2 consensus, 1945 - 79. The country will now have genuine choice. Clearly the wealthy 1% and the corrupt banksters, along with the pro establishment media will do all in their power to vilify Corbyn.

There is something rotten at the heart of global politics, political earthquakes are becoming almost common place, even in the USA, there epitomised by Bernie Sanders, with his popularity creating waves in the Democratic Party. Imagine if he won the Democratic nomination and then became the USAs first socialist president...a utopian dream...But oh! What a dream.

If there is one thing worse than the Tories it is defeatist and totally deluded New Labour appologists, that somehow expect to win by offering toned down versions of Tory policies, while claiming ( lying) to be left of centre. The Party have grown a pair, and thought things through with a calm head. JC will get a higher percentage of the vote than either Brown or Miliband. He may not win outright but he will, at the worst, secure enough votes to give us a hung parliament, why? Because has an alternative vision of how Britain should be, (Blair stood for a continuation of Thatcherism but with a kinder face, he only won because black wednesday destroyed Tory economic credbility). An alternative vision was something sadly lacking under Blair and Brown, and amongst Corbyn's rivals for the leadership.

I paid my £3, voted JC and I am ecstatic. I now have my party back, the party of Attlee and Bevan, a party I can again truly support for the 1st time in decades, Labour has come home.

Interesting and excellent summary. I guess I'm a socialist, but I'm more an anti-capitalist. If your very good points can be parcelled and shown to be the way forward then great. The Tory press needs exposing as you rightly say in the interest of the 1% at the top. f**k me I know people that haven't got 2 happenies to rub together who vote Tory. I've voted Labour for nearly 50 years, because I hate all the Tory party stand for and will continue to do so. Just heard Keith Richard endorse corbyn, so he'll do for me.
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captain duff
post Sep 13 2015, 08:27 AM
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JC has already changed politics in this country. Although the odd thing is that despite the ravings of the media he is not particularly left-wing in the scheme of things. Railway nationalisation? Well aside from most of the population supporting it, so did Tony Blair once and it was in the winning 1997 Labour manifesto. Not renewing Trident? Well many in the military believe the same and that the huge sums wasted on this white elephant that can never be used and doesn't deter terrorists would be better spent on more ships, planes and better equipment for regiments that have been cut to the bone by the Tories to pay for these WMDs. As to economics, it is a sign of how far politics has shifted to the right over the past 30 years that an economic position once shared by John Smith and many others in the previous 'centre' of British politics is now seen as so far to the left.

You then have to wonder why the Tories and likes of the Daily Mail are so scared of him, and they must be scared given the immense smear campaign that has already started, and I think they are scared because they recognise that an end to cosy consensus on cuts will force them to explain properly why they believe those cuts work when even the IMF thinks they are counter-productive to the health of the economy. Of course the real reason for them is to continue a massive shift of wealth and resources from poor to rich under the austerity lie.

Is JC unelectable? Well he is one of the few Labour MPs that has constantly seen his own majority increase at every election he has stood in. He can also win back supporters and seats in Scotland from the SNP, pull lots of votes back from the Greens and polls indicate he is very attractive to many UKIP voters because his honesty and lack of spin is seen as being similar to Farage. All that is a good start, but then if the debate does shift to the left as it has in much of Europe then he would also start pulling in the middle England swing seats too. It is at least worth a try given the Tory-lite approach of Brown and Miliband lost the last two general elections.

The other factor is the media smears. I think these are serious and damaging, but Farage survived similar and even gained more support after all the 'fruitcake' attacks. Also of course the traditional media is not nearly as influential as it was in the past, and the young people that have flocked in their thousands to JC's campaign are nearly all plugged into social media which has the ability to completely by-pass the rich newspaper owners like Murdoch so I do think the negative headlines will have less of an impact as they once would have done.

For the record I've been a Labour Party member for nearly 30 years and I voted for Jeremy Corbyn.


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shunter blue
post Sep 14 2015, 04:32 PM
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Daily Express front page

CORBYN MATES PROMISE STRIKE CHAOS

Is there any evidence to support this scaremongering statement?

This post has been edited by shunter blue: Sep 14 2015, 04:34 PM
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Derry Blue
post Sep 14 2015, 09:56 PM
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QUOTE (shunter blue @ Sep 13 2015, 08:21 AM) *
QUOTE (1midfield general @ Sep 12 2015, 11:09 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Sep 12 2015, 08:33 PM) *
I'm 65 and it seems I will be 75 at the earliest that we can get rid of the nasty party. I don't buy into Harriet Harman's assertion the the election process was robust. We've now devised a method of selecting an unelectable leader of the party after the unions dominated process selected the unelectable Milliband brother. A mere 100,000 deluded voters chose Corbyn (less than half of 1% of the electorate). New Labour were elected because they appealled to Middle England. Will Corbyn appeal to the same section of the electorate ...... no of course he won't. Labour's heartland in Northern England, London and a few sporadic oases in the rest of the country will shrink even further.



Quite simply 'why vote for the shout, when you can vote for the scream'. The choice at the last General Election, was the choice between Austerity or Austerity light.
It was the only time that, I had serious reservations, about voting Labour and toyed with voting Green.
What Corbyn offers is a real alternative and who says he is unelectable? The Tory press?
I would say it is 50/50 that, the economy will face a melt down, either by shocks coming from the Chinese market or a recession, brought on by a UK exit from the E.U. .
Actually, it is the economically illiterate Osbourne, who is the real threat to economic growth.
After, 7 years of Austerity, the deficit is growing and the economy is still, in emergency measures.
The U.S.A never bothered with Austerity and took a Keynesian, view that economic growth was more important, than deficit reduction.
The consequence, is that the U.S economy has grown twice as fast as the UK and Europe. So Corbynomics has some validity.
Also, when asked the so-called General public, shows massive support for the Re-Nationalisation of the Railways and Major electricity companies.
Also, I social house building programme, would have widespread support, when owning a house for many is beyond aspirational.
The Tory press must also be worried because their influence, is being watered down, by the rise of social media.
Twitter had something like 12 million hits for Corbyn and this is why the Blairists and the Media establishment, couldn't land a punch on him.
Very interesting times are ahead and as a socialist, I am delighted.

I agree with all of that, but are Middle England going to vote for someone who looks as though he's been brought in off a park bench. I want the racist, poverty creating, zero-hour loving scum Tories as far away from Government as possible, but most people south of Birmingham believe the lying, scare-mongering Murdoch Tory press.

My goodness, what a sweeping generalisation even for this forum.
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1midfield genera...
post Sep 14 2015, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE (shunter blue @ Sep 14 2015, 05:32 PM) *
Daily Express front page

CORBYN MATES PROMISE STRIKE CHAOS

Is there any evidence to support this scaremongering statement?




Looks like the usual garbage trotted out by the Tory press to me.
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captain duff
post Sep 15 2015, 08:34 AM
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According to the more rabid Tories (that'll be most of them) and their media allies as a result of electing JC as leader of a party that isn't even in government the sky is apparently about to fall down, swarms of locusts are about to appear and eat all the jaffa cakes and some black riders are about to ride all over our children looking for a ring. At least I think that's the gist.

I've not read the Express article (I often think that no one reads the Express, at least I've never seen any for many a year), but I suspect that it refers to the current ideologically driven attack on trade unions by the Tories that has been condemned by all the civil liberties groups and many employer organisations to boot.

Of course if you take away the legal right to strike by making it so hard to get a ballot result in favour (by not allowing electronic voting, having a 50% turnout and any abstentions counted as no votes) then history shows there will still be strikes, just that they will be wildcat unofficial ones instead of ones controlled by the union leaders. I suspect the Tories want that, although like with Corbyn they should be very careful what the wish for, particularly when hardly any of them are sat in parliament or local councils as a result of elections where there was more than a 50% turnout and where they got 40% of the votes of those that did bother to vote - in fact in the recent election the Tory government was elected on a whopping 24% of the electorate actually voting for them which is not really much of a mandate is it?


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shunter blue
post Sep 15 2015, 11:57 AM
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QUOTE (captain duff @ Sep 15 2015, 09:34 AM) *
According to the more rabid Tories (that'll be most of them) and their media allies as a result of electing JC as leader of a party that isn't even in government the sky is apparently about to fall down, swarms of locusts are about to appear and eat all the jaffa cakes and some black riders are about to ride all over our children looking for a ring. At least I think that's the gist.

I've not read the Express article (I often think that no one reads the Express, at least I've never seen any for many a year), but I suspect that it refers to the current ideologically driven attack on trade unions by the Tories that has been condemned by all the civil liberties groups and many employer organisations to boot.

Of course if you take away the legal right to strike by making it so hard to get a ballot result in favour (by not allowing electronic voting, having a 50% turnout and any abstentions counted as no votes) then history shows there will still be strikes, just that they will be wildcat unofficial ones instead of ones controlled by the union leaders. I suspect the Tories want that, although like with Corbyn they should be very careful what the wish for, particularly when hardly any of them are sat in parliament or local councils as a result of elections where there was more than a 50% turnout and where they got 40% of the votes of those that did bother to vote - in fact in the recent election the Tory government was elected on a whopping 24% of the electorate actually voting for them which is not really much of a mandate is it?

It's frightening how undemocratic democracy really is, grrrrrh.

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post Sep 15 2015, 01:41 PM
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Neo and Proto in the same post, what next?


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post Sep 15 2015, 03:01 PM
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I would be guessing that the biggest thing that the Tories are worried about is that Corbyn, unlike Cameron and Boy George or Milliband, actually has an air of normality about him. As long as he tells the spin doctors to f**k off, doesn't start waving his arms about and putting loads of stress into the way he speaks, then he might just do quite well.


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shunter blue
post May 6 2016, 01:49 PM
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QUOTE (Catford-Bags @ Sep 15 2015, 04:01 PM) *
I would be guessing that the biggest thing that the Tories are worried about is that Corbyn, unlike Cameron and Boy George or Milliband, actually has an air of normality about him. As long as he tells the spin doctors to f**k off, doesn't start waving his arms about and putting loads of stress into the way he speaks, then he might just do quite well.



The worst Tory government in memory and Labour are losing ground. Time for a change at the top. After all he was elected by a stupid system that allowed Tories et al to pay £3 and vote for him. No argument will convince me that he's not Tory gold. Get rid and soon.
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jack
post Aug 2 2016, 11:37 AM
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Went to watch Jeremy speak last night in Liverpool. Amazing to see over 10,000 people there to listen. He spoke brilliantly and was clear about how he wanted to end austerity and protect the most vulnerable.

The most striking thing about it all, however, was the demographic of his crowd and just how misleading mainstream media is. The vast majority of news sources in this country are so blatantly anti-Corbyn that his followers are made out to be young renegades, either hippy lefty loveys or a sinister mob with violent motives. NOTHING could have been further from the truth. The crowd was a total of all ages, all ethnicities and all walks of life. There was a completely peaceful and welcoming atmosphere and I left thinking that once Jeremy has weeded out the snakes in his own party, those who refuse to accept the overwhelming view of the labour membership, there is going to be a serious movement in this country that will be hard to stop.

It opened my eyes on many things, especially how the media can create a narrative that people blindly follow.
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post Aug 2 2016, 11:51 AM
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QUOTE (jack @ Aug 2 2016, 12:37 PM) *
Went to watch Jeremy speak last night in Liverpool. Amazing to see over 10,000 people there to listen. He spoke brilliantly and was clear about how he wanted to end austerity and protect the most vulnerable.

The most striking thing about it all, however, was the demographic of his crowd and just how misleading mainstream media is. The vast majority of news sources in this country are so blatantly anti-Corbyn that his followers are made out to be young renegades, either hippy lefty loveys or a sinister mob with violent motives. NOTHING could have been further from the truth. The crowd was a total of all ages, all ethnicities and all walks of life. There was a completely peaceful and welcoming atmosphere and I left thinking that once Jeremy has weeded out the snakes in his own party, those who refuse to accept the overwhelming view of the labour membership, there is going to be a serious movement in this country that will be hard to stop.

It opened my eyes on many things, especially how the media can create a narrative that people blindly follow.

Was there myself and agree with you Jack.


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post Aug 2 2016, 12:25 PM
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I watched it on the live stream (over 3.5k watching online), he came across very well indeed.

Unsurprising how the mainstream media have pretty much bypassed this in their news stories. I can't find any mention of it on the BBC website! Neutral my a**e! mad.gif


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post Aug 2 2016, 01:39 PM
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QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Aug 2 2016, 01:34 PM) *
QUOTE (jack @ Aug 2 2016, 12:37 PM) *
Went to watch Jeremy speak last night in Liverpool. Amazing to see over 10,000 people there to listen. He spoke brilliantly and was clear about how he wanted to end austerity and protect the most vulnerable.

The most striking thing about it all, however, was the demographic of his crowd and just how misleading mainstream media is. The vast majority of news sources in this country are so blatantly anti-Corbyn that his followers are made out to be young renegades, either hippy lefty loveys or a sinister mob with violent motives. NOTHING could have been further from the truth. The crowd was a total of all ages, all ethnicities and all walks of life. There was a completely peaceful and welcoming atmosphere and I left thinking that once Jeremy has weeded out the snakes in his own party, those who refuse to accept the overwhelming view of the labour membership, there is going to be a serious movement in this country that will be hard to stop.

It opened my eyes on many things, especially how the media can create a narrative that people blindly follow.


Totally agree.

The MSM only give the establishment view on Corbyn, it is not him personally that they dislike and fear, but what he stands for. They are trying to create a narrative of failure, ably assisted by a 5th column of ‘new Labour’ rebel MPs. In recent local elections in England and Wales Corbyn’s Labour party matched the best Milliband or Brown had managed, and this despite MSM, particularly BBC propaganda stating that massive losses were inevitable, and having little or no backing from 170 MPs, just imagine how many more seats /councils would have been gained had the parliamentary party united behind him!

They won’t do it because it is ideological; Blair gave the game away last week when he, for once in his life, told the truth. Gone was the ‘Corbyn’s a loser’ narrative, and instead he openly stated that he did not want a majority Labour government if it followed the Corbyn agenda. He prefers to stick with the failed neoliberal # economic agenda, that has done so much damage to social cohesion , that has impoverished so many traditional labour supporting households and communities , that offers our young people a future saddled with debt and insecurity, in short Tory lite.

The recent coup within the Labour party has nothing to do with brexit and Corbyn’s performance during the campaign, we all know he did not get any substantial media coverage, Farage , Boris and Gove, and the Tory civil war over the EU took 90% of the coverage , and nothing Corbyn said or did could have changed that. The rebel 170 MPs did not lose confidence in, and withdraw support, from Corbyn over brexit, that was not possible, because they had never supported him in the first place. They were openly plotting his removal BEFORE he was even elected.

Corbyn is not a great orator, and has little charisma, but they are the trivial veneer of our dumbed down sloganised media age, it’s the message, not the messenger that really matters. Of course the MSM don’t want you to focus on what he actually stands for! Remember, the Labour party’s greatest leader Clement Attlee also lacked these attributes, and look what he achieved!

The Labour party IS its members , the 170 rebel MPs are just 170 out of 600,000, if they don’t like what the members want they should resign the Labour whip and join a neoliberal party, and contiue to be a part of the problem and not fight for political solutions to those problems.

# https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/...-george-monbiot

I don't think the media can be criticised for their criticism of Corbyn, or for the criticism of Cameron's resignation "honours" list, along with Corbyns extreme policies, these kind of things are a "gift" to the media.
Let's get straight to the point, Corbyn, has, and still is from the "Far Left" That is why his Parliamentary Party doesn't want him because they know that if Labour go into the next Election with him and his policies, the Labour Party will be annihilated.
Corbyns cause is not helped by intimidation and bullying from some of his supporters, the treatment of Angela Eagle is disgusting, and believe me I'm NO fan of hers!
The last Labour leader with Corbyn type policies,Michael Foot was trounced at the ballot box, quote from a Labour MP about Foots manifesto at the time, "It was the longest suicide note in History."
For Labour to win the Election, they will have to win over dissolutioned Conservative and Lib/Dem voters in very large numbers and I can't see that happening, Corbyns policies would have to paid for by massive tax increases, that is not fantasy, it's fact, and just by saying "sting the rich" won't work, because in last Labour governments when this happened
even if you were "middle class" or "hard working class" they all suffered.
However admirable the causes and aspirations of the "Hard Left" you will need the whole country to support them, at the moment I can't see that happening.
Sits back and awaits the flack from the above.


--------------------
NEIL FISHER I AM NOT WORTHY
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Derry Exile
post Aug 2 2016, 02:02 PM
Post #24


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********

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From: Connahs Quay
Member No.: 1413



QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ Aug 2 2016, 02:39 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Aug 2 2016, 01:34 PM) *
QUOTE (jack @ Aug 2 2016, 12:37 PM) *
Went to watch Jeremy speak last night in Liverpool. Amazing to see over 10,000 people there to listen. He spoke brilliantly and was clear about how he wanted to end austerity and protect the most vulnerable.

The most striking thing about it all, however, was the demographic of his crowd and just how misleading mainstream media is. The vast majority of news sources in this country are so blatantly anti-Corbyn that his followers are made out to be young renegades, either hippy lefty loveys or a sinister mob with violent motives. NOTHING could have been further from the truth. The crowd was a total of all ages, all ethnicities and all walks of life. There was a completely peaceful and welcoming atmosphere and I left thinking that once Jeremy has weeded out the snakes in his own party, those who refuse to accept the overwhelming view of the labour membership, there is going to be a serious movement in this country that will be hard to stop.

It opened my eyes on many things, especially how the media can create a narrative that people blindly follow.


Totally agree.

The MSM only give the establishment view on Corbyn, it is not him personally that they dislike and fear, but what he stands for. They are trying to create a narrative of failure, ably assisted by a 5th column of ‘new Labour’ rebel MPs. In recent local elections in England and Wales Corbyn’s Labour party matched the best Milliband or Brown had managed, and this despite MSM, particularly BBC propaganda stating that massive losses were inevitable, and having little or no backing from 170 MPs, just imagine how many more seats /councils would have been gained had the parliamentary party united behind him!

They won’t do it because it is ideological; Blair gave the game away last week when he, for once in his life, told the truth. Gone was the ‘Corbyn’s a loser’ narrative, and instead he openly stated that he did not want a majority Labour government if it followed the Corbyn agenda. He prefers to stick with the failed neoliberal # economic agenda, that has done so much damage to social cohesion , that has impoverished so many traditional labour supporting households and communities , that offers our young people a future saddled with debt and insecurity, in short Tory lite.

The recent coup within the Labour party has nothing to do with brexit and Corbyn’s performance during the campaign, we all know he did not get any substantial media coverage, Farage , Boris and Gove, and the Tory civil war over the EU took 90% of the coverage , and nothing Corbyn said or did could have changed that. The rebel 170 MPs did not lose confidence in, and withdraw support, from Corbyn over brexit, that was not possible, because they had never supported him in the first place. They were openly plotting his removal BEFORE he was even elected.

Corbyn is not a great orator, and has little charisma, but they are the trivial veneer of our dumbed down sloganised media age, it’s the message, not the messenger that really matters. Of course the MSM don’t want you to focus on what he actually stands for! Remember, the Labour party’s greatest leader Clement Attlee also lacked these attributes, and look what he achieved!

The Labour party IS its members , the 170 rebel MPs are just 170 out of 600,000, if they don’t like what the members want they should resign the Labour whip and join a neoliberal party, and contiue to be a part of the problem and not fight for political solutions to those problems.

# https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/...-george-monbiot

I don't think the media can be criticised for their criticism of Corbyn, or for the criticism of Cameron's resignation "honours" list, along with Corbyns extreme policies, these kind of things are a "gift" to the media.
Let's get straight to the point, Corbyn, has, and still is from the "Far Left" That is why his Parliamentary Party doesn't want him because they know that if Labour go into the next Election with him and his policies, the Labour Party will be annihilated.
Corbyns cause is not helped by intimidation and bullying from some of his supporters, the treatment of Angela Eagle is disgusting, and believe me I'm NO fan of hers!
The last Labour leader with Corbyn type policies,Michael Foot was trounced at the ballot box, quote from a Labour MP about Foots manifesto at the time, "It was the longest suicide note in History."
For Labour to win the Election, they will have to win over dissolutioned Conservative and Lib/Dem voters in very large numbers and I can't see that happening, Corbyns policies would have to paid for by massive tax increases, that is not fantasy, it's fact, and just by saying "sting the rich" won't work, because in last Labour governments when this happened
even if you were "middle class" or "hard working class" they all suffered.
However admirable the causes and aspirations of the "Hard Left" you will need the whole country to support them, at the moment I can't see that happening.
Sits back and awaits the flack from the above.


And here is Mr Mini-Murdoch himself biggrin.gif

Where is the evidence that Angela Eagle was bullied and intimidated by Corbyn supporters?

What was it, 2 thirds of the electorate didn't vote in the last general election?? instead of aiming for disillusioned Tories and Lib Dems, if Labour could entice those millions who didn't vote into voting they could - possibly, win an election.


--------------------
"Derry Exile, he speaks for the Nation!" - Elwood P Dowd 24/11/07
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Derry Exile
post Aug 2 2016, 02:03 PM
Post #25


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From: Connahs Quay
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Corbyns 'Extreme Policies'

Hilarious when Owen Smith is churning out the same stuff - yet he's deemed more acceptable to the MSM!


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"Derry Exile, he speaks for the Nation!" - Elwood P Dowd 24/11/07
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