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> Tottenham riot
Blue Lupus
post Aug 7 2011, 10:43 AM
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No response yet from the Country's leaders. Boris has had someone make a statement for him-obviously wasn't him as it made sense. Dont panic Theresa May is still around, all will be fine.
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Neil Fishers Big...
post Aug 7 2011, 10:59 AM
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QUOTE (Blue Lupus @ Aug 7 2011, 11:43 AM) *
No response yet from the Country's leaders. Boris has had someone make a statement for him-obviously wasn't him as it made sense. Dont panic Theresa May is still around, all will be fine.

So who are you blaming for the lawlessness? Shops,buses and cars set on fire,homes,shops and businesses robbed and looted,Policemen in hospital.....don't quite know how you can blame the government for that,Apparently it's supposedly "Justice" for someone who was killed in a shoot-out with the Police.


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NWAS
post Aug 7 2011, 12:26 PM
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Where is Normal Dave? Anyone seen Normal Dave?

Whilst I cannot in anyway condone what happened (to attack the businesses and homes of normal working folk is crazy), we are seeing the results of the inner city generations that our top loaded society has created, starting with greed is good, through champagne socialism and now into tax the poor.

This inner city generation (15-22) have no jobs, nothing to do at night, no parental control and more importantly absolutely nothing to lose. They need the approval of nobody except their peers, hence the gun and knife culture prevelent in London, Liverpool, Manchester, Brum etc. They are facing cuts to education, fees for tuiton, little or no apprenticeships or skilled work, they can get McJobs if they are lucky.

With the police having faced cuts, they seemed ill prepared and almost unwilling to deal with the situation. Add to that the obvious tensions in certain areas of the country and this might not be an isolated incident this summer.

This is not a party political problem, but only one and a quarter of them has the opportunity to sort it. Have faith in Dave, he'll be home soon.


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Neil Fishers Big...
post Aug 7 2011, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE (NWAS @ Aug 7 2011, 01:26 PM) *
Where is Normal Dave? Anyone seen Normal Dave?

Whilst I cannot in anyway condone what happened (to attack the businesses and homes of normal working folk is crazy), we are seeing the results of the inner city generations that our top loaded society has created, starting with greed is good, through champagne socialism and now into tax the poor.

This inner city generation (15-22) have no jobs, nothing to do at night, no parental control and more importantly absolutely nothing to lose. They need the approval of nobody except their peers, hence the gun and knife culture prevelent in London, Liverpool, Manchester, Brum etc. They are facing cuts to education, fees for tuiton, little or no apprenticeships or skilled work, they can get McJobs if they are lucky.

With the police having faced cuts, they seemed ill prepared and almost unwilling to deal with the situation. Add to that the obvious tensions in certain areas of the country and this might not be an isolated incident this summer.

This is not a party political problem, but only one and a quarter of them has the opportunity to sort it. Have faith in Dave, he'll be home soon.

..as you have said NWAS this kind of rioting has occured under both governments,and we could debate long and hard who's fault it is, i didn't comment after your excellent last post regarding the theatre debate as we would just go around in circles.I'm very much in the minority on this board as far as ones own politics is concerned,and because i find these kind of debates stress making i'm trying to stay clear of them!
Let's forget the troubles of the the country for now and look forward to the big kick off next Saturday,when i shall look forward to seeing you once again. biggrin.gif


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NWAS
post Aug 7 2011, 01:30 PM
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There is no quick solution, but yes, the match is back Saturday and I've left your name of the door of my ivory tower wink.gif


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007
post Aug 7 2011, 01:36 PM
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It's pathetic. What does the wanton destruction of a carpet shop and looting of others have to do with a police shooting? Some idiots are just using anything as an excuse to riot.
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Blue Lupus
post Aug 7 2011, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ Aug 7 2011, 11:59 AM) *
QUOTE (Blue Lupus @ Aug 7 2011, 11:43 AM) *
No response yet from the Country's leaders. Boris has had someone make a statement for him-obviously wasn't him as it made sense. Dont panic Theresa May is still around, all will be fine.

So who are you blaming for the lawlessness? Shops,buses and cars set on fire,homes,shops and businesses robbed and looted,Policemen in hospital.....don't quite know how you can blame the government for that,Apparently it's supposedly "Justice" for someone who was killed in a shoot-out with the Police.


The three leaders of this country are on holiday, this is fact. Bumbling Boris has just pulled up in his Jag mumbling something about cheap carpets. The next highest ranking MP is unable to show any empathy. What a mess. The destruction of any property is an outrage, especially in your own nieghbourhood. Those found guilty should spend two weeks cleaning Daves stables and tending to his father in laws Royal estate. That should teach those poor people a lesson that they will never forget.
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CO2
post Aug 7 2011, 03:12 PM
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i blame too much drink and football myself, those yid army types are notorious for their behaviour and are bound to be responsible, grass them up i say and throw away the key...

anyone fancy rampaging down hoole later on?? can blame it on our treatment at chor£ey last season and can then staand around telling on each other biggrin.gif

"i predict a riot"... how right those chief boys were....


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Che Guevara
post Aug 7 2011, 05:42 PM
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I blame the CFU and their Ivory Towers.

This post has been edited by Che Guevara: Aug 7 2011, 05:42 PM


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Bambi_CCFC
post Aug 7 2011, 06:09 PM
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You can only blame society and government so far in my opinion.

They're just thugs. I have absolutely no sympathy with people who go around setting fire to things, injuring police, damaging property and looting.

There's thousands of unhappy people around the country but they don't take to opportunistic rioting. It started as a peaceful thing but degenerated in to a pit of violence orchestrated by hooligans.

This post has been edited by Bambi_CCFC: Aug 7 2011, 06:11 PM


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TomCCFC87
post Aug 7 2011, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE (Bambi_CCFC @ Aug 7 2011, 07:09 PM) *
You can only blame society and government so far in my opinion.

They're just thugs. I have absolutely no sympathy with people who go around setting fire to things, injuring police, damaging property and looting.

There's thousands of unhappy people around the country but they don't take to opportunistic rioting. It started as a peaceful thing but degenerated in to a pit of violence orchestrated by hooligans.


Its seems that almost any protest of any kind in the capital gets taken over by t****rs who dont give a crap about the reason for the protest and just want to cause trouble. The marches over tuition fees a few months back demonstrated that. Whats really sad is the actions of the minority of hooligans who just show up to riot give the government the perfect excuse to ignore the issues the protest was intended to highlight and instead focus on tarring everyone involved as trouble makers.
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angel of the nor...
post Aug 7 2011, 10:22 PM
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they are just helping build the Big society , handing out carpet and teles to those in need
and being screwed by the twoddle twins


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The Colonel
post Aug 7 2011, 10:35 PM
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QUOTE (angel of the north @ Aug 7 2011, 11:22 PM) *
they are just helping build the Big society , handing out carpet and teles to those in need
and being screwed by the twoddle twins

Bring back Margaret Thatcher .
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Bright Blue
post Aug 8 2011, 06:10 AM
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How much force should property owners, shop keepers and the police be allowed to use to prevent looting, vandalism and arson? Would it be wrong for a shop owner to open fire on a group of thugs who smahed his shop windows and started looting his shop? If a mob sets fire to a bus or building or throws Molotov cocktails at the police should the police be allowded to use rubber bullets, tasers, water cannon or even hard ammunition? It seems to me the police reaction has been relatively restrained and consequently somewhat ineffective. Do the decent, law abiding folk in the community deserve more protection from law enforcement? Of course if a rioter was killed by police, the PC brigade would go mental and the criminal element would use it as justification for further anarchy and criminality. For the police it really is a case of being caught between a rock and a hard place.
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Derry Exile
post Aug 8 2011, 07:28 AM
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They should have a riot in Wrexham, might improve the place.....


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Achmed Lad
post Aug 8 2011, 09:13 AM
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Tip of the iceberg I reckon. You have to remember some of these people have absolutely Jack s**t going for them so won't be too arsed about the consequences as they have nothing to loose except perhaps their freedom for a short while. No jobs, no future and stuck on some dog s**t sink estate with f**k all going for them. I'm not condoning them before the pc brigade start firing up their keyboards but sometimes when faced with a future of absolutely nothing you can almost see why it takes an incident like this to light the fire.

You'd better get used to it folks because this won't be the end of it unfortunately.


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Midnight Rider
post Aug 8 2011, 10:43 AM
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You always see the same responses:
1. they're individual thugs who should be hauled over the coals. They just jumped on a bandwagon as an excuse for some 'fun'.
2. it's society's fault for not building enough youth centres or providing enough apprenticeships. Tension has been building for years - this is the neglected youth crying out for attention.

One view is too unforgiving, the other is too romantic. As usual, the answer is probably a bit of both.

The statistics between rising unemployment and crime are clear. However, still the majority of unemployed teenagers don't act this way. How many of those 16 year-olds throwing bricks were thinking of the wider political and societal forces? And how many of them were laughing with their mates?



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NWAS
post Aug 8 2011, 10:50 AM
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QUOTE (Achmed Lad @ Aug 8 2011, 10:13 AM) *
Tip of the iceberg I reckon. You have to remember some of these people have absolutely Jack s**t going for them so won't be too arsed about the consequences as they have nothing to loose except perhaps their freedom for a short while. No jobs, no future and stuck on some dog s**t sink estate with f**k all going for them. I'm not condoning them before the pc brigade start firing up their keyboards but sometimes when faced with a future of absolutely nothing you can almost see why it takes an incident like this to light the fire.

You'd better get used to it folks because this won't be the end of it unfortunately.


QUOTE
You always see the same responses:
1. they're individual thugs who should be hauled over the coals. They just jumped on a bandwagon as an excuse for some 'fun'.
2. it's society's fault for not building enough youth centres or providing enough apprenticeships. Tension has been building for years - this is the neglected youth crying out for attention.

One view is too unforgiving, the other is too romantic. As usual, the answer is probably a bit of both.

The statistics between rising unemployment and crime are clear. However, still the majority of unemployed teenagers don't act this way. How many of those 16 year-olds throwing bricks were thinking of the wider political and societal forces? And how many of them were laughing with their mates?


What I was saying.

Nothing to lose, and no-one to impress except their mates. A dangerous recipe.


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Have your fun, live everyday in the bright sunshine.


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TomCCFC87
post Aug 8 2011, 12:12 PM
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QUOTE (Midnight Rider @ Aug 8 2011, 11:43 AM) *
You always see the same responses:
1. they're individual thugs who should be hauled over the coals. They just jumped on a bandwagon as an excuse for some 'fun'.
2. it's society's fault for not building enough youth centres or providing enough apprenticeships. Tension has been building for years - this is the neglected youth crying out for attention.

One view is too unforgiving, the other is too romantic. As usual, the answer is probably a bit of both.

The statistics between rising unemployment and crime are clear. However, still the majority of unemployed teenagers don't act this way. How many of those 16 year-olds throwing bricks were thinking of the wider political and societal forces? And how many of them were laughing with their mates?


Part of the problem with apprenticeships nowadays is that many of them are just an excuse to pay young people less than minimum wage. A quick look on the job centre website will return a load of apprenticeships for stuff like sales assistants and data entry jobs which require very little training and dont provide you with a real trade or skill to progress your career but by calling it an apprenticeship the employer is allowed to pay a young person less than £100 a week for doing the same job that would pay a normal employee around £200 a week
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mused
post Aug 8 2011, 01:19 PM
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QUOTE (TomCCFC87 @ Aug 8 2011, 01:12 PM) *
QUOTE (Midnight Rider @ Aug 8 2011, 11:43 AM) *
You always see the same responses:
1. they're individual thugs who should be hauled over the coals. They just jumped on a bandwagon as an excuse for some 'fun'.
2. it's society's fault for not building enough youth centres or providing enough apprenticeships. Tension has been building for years - this is the neglected youth crying out for attention.

One view is too unforgiving, the other is too romantic. As usual, the answer is probably a bit of both.

The statistics between rising unemployment and crime are clear. However, still the majority of unemployed teenagers don't act this way. How many of those 16 year-olds throwing bricks were thinking of the wider political and societal forces? And how many of them were laughing with their mates?


Part of the problem with apprenticeships nowadays is that many of them are just an excuse to pay young people less than minimum wage. A quick look on the job centre website will return a load of apprenticeships for stuff like sales assistants and data entry jobs which require very little training and dont provide you with a real trade or skill to progress your career but by calling it an apprenticeship the employer is allowed to pay a young person less than £100 a week for doing the same job that would pay a normal employee around £200 a week

Who can forget the good old days when Maggie and the boys thought it was perfectly acceptable to pay youths £29.50 a week for 40 hours work, often during unsociable hours?
Personally, I will never forgive the tories for their exploitation of myself and many others and fear a return to those dark days under the present regime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_Training_Scheme - funnily enough the scheme was apparentely born after the 80's rioting!!

This post has been edited by mused: Aug 8 2011, 01:43 PM


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BLUE AND WHITE G...
post Aug 8 2011, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE (mused @ Aug 8 2011, 02:19 PM) *
QUOTE (TomCCFC87 @ Aug 8 2011, 01:12 PM) *
QUOTE (Midnight Rider @ Aug 8 2011, 11:43 AM) *
You always see the same responses:
1. they're individual thugs who should be hauled over the coals. They just jumped on a bandwagon as an excuse for some 'fun'.
2. it's society's fault for not building enough youth centres or providing enough apprenticeships. Tension has been building for years - this is the neglected youth crying out for attention.

One view is too unforgiving, the other is too romantic. As usual, the answer is probably a bit of both.

The statistics between rising unemployment and crime are clear. However, still the majority of unemployed teenagers don't act this way. How many of those 16 year-olds throwing bricks were thinking of the wider political and societal forces? And how many of them were laughing with their mates?


Part of the problem with apprenticeships nowadays is that many of them are just an excuse to pay young people less than minimum wage. A quick look on the job centre website will return a load of apprenticeships for stuff like sales assistants and data entry jobs which require very little training and dont provide you with a real trade or skill to progress your career but by calling it an apprenticeship the employer is allowed to pay a young person less than £100 a week for doing the same job that would pay a normal employee around £200 a week

Who can forget the good old days when Maggie and the boys thought it was perfectly acceptable to pay youths £29.50 a week for 40 hours work, often during unsociable hours?
Personally, I will never forgive the tories for their explutation of myself and many others and fear a return to those dark days under the present regime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_Training_Scheme - funnily enough the scheme was apparentely born after the 80's rioting!!

remember that well mused-although when i left school in 1984 it was called JTS(job training scheme)and it was in a place down canel street-got a job placement in a fruit and veg shop in hoole and hated every minute of it-the owner was horrible


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PhillippeDuLait
post Aug 8 2011, 02:17 PM
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The Kaiser Chiefs predicted this years back.


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Achmed Lad
post Aug 8 2011, 02:57 PM
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Ah yes, the good old 'YTS' scheme. I think it was £17.50 per week when I started in 1980 before rising to a whopping £23.50 a week when I was 18.
Slave labour at it's very best, the companies always said there 'might' be a full time job at the end of it so you worked your knackers off before being told six months later 'sorry there's no work for you'. Best of all they didn't even pay you themselves.


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TomCCFC87
post Aug 8 2011, 03:07 PM
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What really takes the p**s with the current batch of skill free apprenticeships is that to make space for them they have abolished the Future Jobs Fund which guaranteed young people who were struggling to find work a full time minimum wage job on a 6 month contract.
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mused
post Aug 8 2011, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE (Achmed Lad @ Aug 8 2011, 03:57 PM) *
Ah yes, the good old 'YTS' scheme. I think it was £17.50 per week when I started in 1980 before rising to a whopping £23.50 a week when I was 18.
Slave labour at it's very best, the companies always said there 'might' be a full time job at the end of it so you worked your knackers off before being told six months later 'sorry there's no work for you'. Best of all they didn't even pay you themselves.

I did it 90/91, think it was abolished shortly after that. It was £29.50 at 16 and then an earth shattering £35 a week when I turned 17. I couldn't even afford to get a bus to work!


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