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> Shaker Aamer, Terrorist or humanitarian worler
shunter blue
post Dec 14 2015, 09:44 AM
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I'm slightly concerned that we're feting this big cuddly, smiley man as a returning war hero. He claims to have been doing humanitarian work in Afghanistan, but doesn't seem to be producing any credentials. He makes claims against the British security services, but what does he expect if he's caught in a war zone. I know little about him, but surely if he's innocent as he says he should be directing his anger towards the United States. It's alleged that he will get a £1m of compensation from the British Government. I'm happy to be put right if I'm missing something.
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CO2
post Dec 14 2015, 03:43 PM
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QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 14 2015, 09:44 AM) *
I'm slightly concerned that we're feting this big cuddly, smiley man as a returning war hero. He claims to have been doing humanitarian work in Afghanistan, but doesn't seem to be producing any credentials. He makes claims against the British security services, but what does he expect if he's caught in a war zone. I know little about him, but surely if he's innocent as he says he should be directing his anger towards the United States. It's alleged that he will get a £1m of compensation from the British Government. I'm happy to be put right if I'm missing something.

In agreement with you. Know one seems to have claimed him as working on their behalf and he seems very shady about his reasons for being out there. As you say if your caught in a war zone surely you have to expect some questioning...
It seems every one whether rightly or wrongly accused these days gets a massive pay out from the uk government..



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shunter blue
post Dec 14 2015, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 14 2015, 04:24 PM) *
QUOTE (CO2 @ Dec 14 2015, 03:43 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 14 2015, 09:44 AM) *
I'm slightly concerned that we're feting this big cuddly, smiley man as a returning war hero. He claims to have been doing humanitarian work in Afghanistan, but doesn't seem to be producing any credentials. He makes claims against the British security services, but what does he expect if he's caught in a war zone. I know little about him, but surely if he's innocent as he says he should be directing his anger towards the United States. It's alleged that he will get a £1m of compensation from the British Government. I'm happy to be put right if I'm missing something.

In agreement with you. Know one seems to have claimed him as working on their behalf and he seems very shady about his reasons for being out there. As you say if your caught in a war zone surely you have to expect some questioning...
It seems every one whether rightly or wrongly accused these days gets a massive pay out from the uk government..


Ridiculous posts!

The only shady issue is that the USA, the hypocrites that attack others over human rights, kept him locked up without charge for years, tortured him, as well as subjecting him to an illegal rendition from Afghanistan. As an innocent man, he has not been prosecuted so he is innocent, why should he have to explain to anyone what he was doing? If he had been involved in terrorism, the US could have prosecuted him, that they did not says it all. Afghan gangs were making vast sums off the gullible yanks kidnapping any foreigners they found at the time. If the British security services were in any way involved then they disgrace our country. Compensation should be paid by the USA.


That was my main point, but this man is a Saudi national and I think even a neoliberal like yourself agrees that all that is bad seems to emanate from there.
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shunter blue
post Dec 15 2015, 12:56 PM
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QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 14 2015, 07:56 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 14 2015, 04:50 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 14 2015, 04:24 PM) *
QUOTE (CO2 @ Dec 14 2015, 03:43 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 14 2015, 09:44 AM) *
I'm slightly concerned that we're feting this big cuddly, smiley man as a returning war hero. He claims to have been doing humanitarian work in Afghanistan, but doesn't seem to be producing any credentials. He makes claims against the British security services, but what does he expect if he's caught in a war zone. I know little about him, but surely if he's innocent as he says he should be directing his anger towards the United States. It's alleged that he will get a £1m of compensation from the British Government. I'm happy to be put right if I'm missing something.

In agreement with you. Know one seems to have claimed him as working on their behalf and he seems very shady about his reasons for being out there. As you say if your caught in a war zone surely you have to expect some questioning...
It seems every one whether rightly or wrongly accused these days gets a massive pay out from the uk government..


Ridiculous posts!

The only shady issue is that the USA, the hypocrites that attack others over human rights, kept him locked up without charge for years, tortured him, as well as subjecting him to an illegal rendition from Afghanistan. As an innocent man, he has not been prosecuted so he is innocent, why should he have to explain to anyone what he was doing? If he had been involved in terrorism, the US could have prosecuted him, that they did not says it all. Afghan gangs were making vast sums off the gullible yanks kidnapping any foreigners they found at the time. If the British security services were in any way involved then they disgrace our country. Compensation should be paid by the USA.


That was my main point, but this man is a Saudi national and I think even a neoliberal like yourself agrees that all that is bad seems to emanate from there.



Yes, I agree, very little good comes from Wahhabi Saudi Arabia. But imprisonment without trial, torture, and rendition, that is descending down to their levels. This individual is the victim of injustice, its the perpetrators that need questioning. Our governments embarrass us all by declaring this country an ally of the Saudi's, based of course on arms sales, and instructions from the White House. That great paragon of freedom and human rights ...and drone strikes, Guantanamo Bay etc etc

Please call me any name you like, but NOT a neoliberal! That is an economic ideology that I loathe,detest and profoundly disagree with, its based on neoclassical economic theory, a theory that is totally wrong-headed and incoherent, and has lead to terrible outcomes when dominant in both 1929 - 30s and 2007-09.

I apologise for calling you a neoliberal. Someone on here is always using that term and I thought it was you. I afraid I don't know the difference between all the shades of liberalism. Of course you're right about U.S.A., but I'm afraid I don't agree with you about Shakar Aamer. When he was being interviewed by Victoria Derbyshire on her programme she asked him something difficult and that cuddly exterior turned to something I reckon he was trying to hide and I didn't like what I saw.
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Derry Blue
post Dec 15 2015, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 15 2015, 03:37 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 15 2015, 12:56 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 14 2015, 07:56 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 14 2015, 04:50 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 14 2015, 04:24 PM) *
QUOTE (CO2 @ Dec 14 2015, 03:43 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 14 2015, 09:44 AM) *
I'm slightly concerned that we're feting this big cuddly, smiley man as a returning war hero. He claims to have been doing humanitarian work in Afghanistan, but doesn't seem to be producing any credentials. He makes claims against the British security services, but what does he expect if he's caught in a war zone. I know little about him, but surely if he's innocent as he says he should be directing his anger towards the United States. It's alleged that he will get a £1m of compensation from the British Government. I'm happy to be put right if I'm missing something.

In agreement with you. Know one seems to have claimed him as working on their behalf and he seems very shady about his reasons for being out there. As you say if your caught in a war zone surely you have to expect some questioning...
It seems every one whether rightly or wrongly accused these days gets a massive pay out from the uk government..


Ridiculous posts!

The only shady issue is that the USA, the hypocrites that attack others over human rights, kept him locked up without charge for years, tortured him, as well as subjecting him to an illegal rendition from Afghanistan. As an innocent man, he has not been prosecuted so he is innocent, why should he have to explain to anyone what he was doing? If he had been involved in terrorism, the US could have prosecuted him, that they did not says it all. Afghan gangs were making vast sums off the gullible yanks kidnapping any foreigners they found at the time. If the British security services were in any way involved then they disgrace our country. Compensation should be paid by the USA.


That was my main point, but this man is a Saudi national and I think even a neoliberal like yourself agrees that all that is bad seems to emanate from there.



Yes, I agree, very little good comes from Wahhabi Saudi Arabia. But imprisonment without trial, torture, and rendition, that is descending down to their levels. This individual is the victim of injustice, its the perpetrators that need questioning. Our governments embarrass us all by declaring this country an ally of the Saudi's, based of course on arms sales, and instructions from the White House. That great paragon of freedom and human rights ...and drone strikes, Guantanamo Bay etc etc

Please call me any name you like, but NOT a neoliberal! That is an economic ideology that I loathe,detest and profoundly disagree with, its based on neoclassical economic theory, a theory that is totally wrong-headed and incoherent, and has lead to terrible outcomes when dominant in both 1929 - 30s and 2007-09.

I apologise for calling you a neoliberal. Someone on here is always using that term and I thought it was you. I afraid I don't know the difference between all the shades of liberalism. Of course you're right about U.S.A., but I'm afraid I don't agree with you about Shakar Aamer. When he was being interviewed by Victoria Derbyshire on her programme she asked him something difficult and that cuddly exterior turned to something I reckon he was trying to hide and I didn't like what I saw.


No offence taken. It is me that uses the term a lot, but always while being critical of it, in fact I had some stick for using words with the prefix neo, hence my lame attempt at humour with the 'just call me neo' on my profile.

Question; if Aamer was not a Muslim, but had given similar or 'shifty' answers, would you think the same? Also, its a principle of law that we are all entitled to due process, and are innocent until proven guilty. Aamer was in Guantanamo for 13 years, and was never charged. The US would have prosecuted with glee had there been a shred of evidence that he had done wrong. Imagine what it must have like for him, rendition to Guantanamo, tortured, years locked up in solitary and all the time innocent of any crime. Dislike him, distrust him if you like , but the USA is guilty of gross abuse of both his human rights and international law, and it is this that should be the main topic of discussion, not any imagined flaws in the character of the victim, all of which is mere evidence free speculation.

Yes, we did give you some stick. But I have to smile when I see your 'just call me neo' line on your profile.
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shunter blue
post Dec 15 2015, 06:09 PM
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QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 15 2015, 03:37 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 15 2015, 12:56 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 14 2015, 07:56 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 14 2015, 04:50 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 14 2015, 04:24 PM) *
QUOTE (CO2 @ Dec 14 2015, 03:43 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 14 2015, 09:44 AM) *
I'm slightly concerned that we're feting this big cuddly, smiley man as a returning war hero. He claims to have been doing humanitarian work in Afghanistan, but doesn't seem to be producing any credentials. He makes claims against the British security services, but what does he expect if he's caught in a war zone. I know little about him, but surely if he's innocent as he says he should be directing his anger towards the United States. It's alleged that he will get a £1m of compensation from the British Government. I'm happy to be put right if I'm missing something.

In agreement with you. Know one seems to have claimed him as working on their behalf and he seems very shady about his reasons for being out there. As you say if your caught in a war zone surely you have to expect some questioning...
It seems every one whether rightly or wrongly accused these days gets a massive pay out from the uk government..


Ridiculous posts!

The only shady issue is that the USA, the hypocrites that attack others over human rights, kept him locked up without charge for years, tortured him, as well as subjecting him to an illegal rendition from Afghanistan. As an innocent man, he has not been prosecuted so he is innocent, why should he have to explain to anyone what he was doing? If he had been involved in terrorism, the US could have prosecuted him, that they did not says it all. Afghan gangs were making vast sums off the gullible yanks kidnapping any foreigners they found at the time. If the British security services were in any way involved then they disgrace our country. Compensation should be paid by the USA.


That was my main point, but this man is a Saudi national and I think even a neoliberal like yourself agrees that all that is bad seems to emanate from there.



Yes, I agree, very little good comes from Wahhabi Saudi Arabia. But imprisonment without trial, torture, and rendition, that is descending down to their levels. This individual is the victim of injustice, its the perpetrators that need questioning. Our governments embarrass us all by declaring this country an ally of the Saudi's, based of course on arms sales, and instructions from the White House. That great paragon of freedom and human rights ...and drone strikes, Guantanamo Bay etc etc

Please call me any name you like, but NOT a neoliberal! That is an economic ideology that I loathe,detest and profoundly disagree with, its based on neoclassical economic theory, a theory that is totally wrong-headed and incoherent, and has lead to terrible outcomes when dominant in both 1929 - 30s and 2007-09.

I apologise for calling you a neoliberal. Someone on here is always using that term and I thought it was you. I afraid I don't know the difference between all the shades of liberalism. Of course you're right about U.S.A., but I'm afraid I don't agree with you about Shakar Aamer. When he was being interviewed by Victoria Derbyshire on her programme she asked him something difficult and that cuddly exterior turned to something I reckon he was trying to hide and I didn't like what I saw.


No offence taken. It is me that uses the term a lot, but always while being critical of it, in fact I had some stick for using words with the prefix neo, hence my lame attempt at humour with the 'just call me neo' on my profile.

Question; if Aamer was not a Muslim, but had given similar or 'shifty' answers, would you think the same? Also,fire than they did from the enemey its a principle of law that we are all entitled to due process, and are innocent until proven guilty. Aamer was in Guantanamo for 13 years, and was never charged. The US would have prosecuted with glee had there been a shred of evidence that he had done wrong. Imagine what it must have like for him, rendition to Guantanamo, tortured, years locked up in solitary and all the time innocent of any crime. Dislike him, distrust him if you like , but the USA is guilty of gross abuse of both his human rights and international law, and it is this that should be the main topic of discussion, not any imagined flaws in the character of the victim, all of which is mere evidence free speculation.


I don't have any problem with Muslims at all. My next door neighbour is a Muslim and he's such a good neighbour that I thought he was moving recently and I was aghast that I might get a Brit moving in next door to me. I just think that if you are in a war zone and can't prove that you're not there as a combatant, then you are asking for trouble, especially knowing that during the Iraq war British troops suffered more casualties from so-called friendly fire than they did from the enemy. In other words you cannot trust the U.S.A.
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Che Guevara
post Dec 15 2015, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 15 2015, 06:09 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 15 2015, 03:37 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 15 2015, 12:56 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 14 2015, 07:56 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 14 2015, 04:50 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 14 2015, 04:24 PM) *
QUOTE (CO2 @ Dec 14 2015, 03:43 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 14 2015, 09:44 AM) *
I'm slightly concerned that we're feting this big cuddly, smiley man as a returning war hero. He claims to have been doing humanitarian work in Afghanistan, but doesn't seem to be producing any credentials. He makes claims against the British security services, but what does he expect if he's caught in a war zone. I know little about him, but surely if he's innocent as he says he should be directing his anger towards the United States. It's alleged that he will get a £1m of compensation from the British Government. I'm happy to be put right if I'm missing something.

In agreement with you. Know one seems to have claimed him as working on their behalf and he seems very shady about his reasons for being out there. As you say if your caught in a war zone surely you have to expect some questioning...
It seems every one whether rightly or wrongly accused these days gets a massive pay out from the uk government..


Ridiculous posts!

The only shady issue is that the USA, the hypocrites that attack others over human rights, kept him locked up without charge for years, tortured him, as well as subjecting him to an illegal rendition from Afghanistan. As an innocent man, he has not been prosecuted so he is innocent, why should he have to explain to anyone what he was doing? If he had been involved in terrorism, the US could have prosecuted him, that they did not says it all. Afghan gangs were making vast sums off the gullible yanks kidnapping any foreigners they found at the time. If the British security services were in any way involved then they disgrace our country. Compensation should be paid by the USA.


That was my main point, but this man is a Saudi national and I think even a neoliberal like yourself agrees that all that is bad seems to emanate from there.



Yes, I agree, very little good comes from Wahhabi Saudi Arabia. But imprisonment without trial, torture, and rendition, that is descending down to their levels. This individual is the victim of injustice, its the perpetrators that need questioning. Our governments embarrass us all by declaring this country an ally of the Saudi's, based of course on arms sales, and instructions from the White House. That great paragon of freedom and human rights ...and drone strikes, Guantanamo Bay etc etc

Please call me any name you like, but NOT a neoliberal! That is an economic ideology that I loathe,detest and profoundly disagree with, its based on neoclassical economic theory, a theory that is totally wrong-headed and incoherent, and has lead to terrible outcomes when dominant in both 1929 - 30s and 2007-09.

I apologise for calling you a neoliberal. Someone on here is always using that term and I thought it was you. I afraid I don't know the difference between all the shades of liberalism. Of course you're right about U.S.A., but I'm afraid I don't agree with you about Shakar Aamer. When he was being interviewed by Victoria Derbyshire on her programme she asked him something difficult and that cuddly exterior turned to something I reckon he was trying to hide and I didn't like what I saw.


No offence taken. It is me that uses the term a lot, but always while being critical of it, in fact I had some stick for using words with the prefix neo, hence my lame attempt at humour with the 'just call me neo' on my profile.

Question; if Aamer was not a Muslim, but had given similar or 'shifty' answers, would you think the same? Also,fire than they did from the enemey its a principle of law that we are all entitled to due process, and are innocent until proven guilty. Aamer was in Guantanamo for 13 years, and was never charged. The US would have prosecuted with glee had there been a shred of evidence that he had done wrong. Imagine what it must have like for him, rendition to Guantanamo, tortured, years locked up in solitary and all the time innocent of any crime. Dislike him, distrust him if you like , but the USA is guilty of gross abuse of both his human rights and international law, and it is this that should be the main topic of discussion, not any imagined flaws in the character of the victim, all of which is mere evidence free speculation.


I don't have any problem with Muslims at all. My next door neighbour is a Muslim and he's such a good neighbour that I thought he was moving recently and I was aghast that I might get a Brit moving in next door to me. I just think that if you are in a war zone and can't prove that you're not there as a combatant, then you are asking for trouble, especially knowing that during the Iraq war British troops suffered more casualties from so-called friendly fire than they did from the enemy. In other words you cannot trust the U.S.A.


Xenophobic comments like that are not acceptable,

If you said you were aghast your British neighbour was moving out in case a Muslim moved in there would, rightly, be an outcry. Also don't confuse religion with nationality, many brits are Muslims, and many Asian people are not.

This post has been edited by Che Guevara: Dec 15 2015, 08:19 PM


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Harry McNally: I'm sorry to differ with you sir, but YOU are the caretaker. You've always been the caretaker. I should know Sir - I've always been here.
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shunter blue
post Dec 16 2015, 01:32 PM
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QUOTE (Che Guevara @ Dec 15 2015, 08:17 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 15 2015, 06:09 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 15 2015, 03:37 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 15 2015, 12:56 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 14 2015, 07:56 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 14 2015, 04:50 PM) *
QUOTE (bluesince72 @ Dec 14 2015, 04:24 PM) *
QUOTE (CO2 @ Dec 14 2015, 03:43 PM) *
QUOTE (shunter blue @ Dec 14 2015, 09:44 AM) *
I'm slightly concerned that we're feting this big cuddly, smiley man as a returning war hero. He claims to have been doing humanitarian work in Afghanistan, but doesn't seem to be producing any credentials. He makes claims against the British security services, but what does he expect if he's caught in a war zone. I know little about him, but surely if he's innocent as he says he should be directing his anger towards the United States. It's alleged that he will get a £1m of compensation from the British Government. I'm happy to be put right if I'm missing something.

In agreement with you. Know one seems to have claimed him as working on their behalf and he seems very shady about his reasons for being out there. As you say if your caught in a war zone surely you have to expect some questioning...
It seems every one whether rightly or wrongly accused these days gets a massive pay out from the uk government..


Ridiculous posts!

The only shady issue is that the USA, the hypocrites that attack others over human rights, kept him locked up without charge for years, tortured him, as well as subjecting him to an illegal rendition from Afghanistan. As an innocent man, he has not been prosecuted so he is innocent, why should he have to explain to anyone what he was doing? If he had been involved in terrorism, the US could have prosecuted him, that they did not says it all. Afghan gangs were making vast sums off the gullible yanks kidnapping any foreigners they found at the time. If the British security services were in any way involved then they disgrace our country. Compensation should be paid by the USA.


That was my main point, but this man is a Saudi national and I think even a neoliberal like yourself agrees that all that is bad seems to emanate from there.



Yes, I agree, very little good comes from Wahhabi Saudi Arabia. But imprisonment without trial, torture, and rendition, that is descending down to their levels. This individual is the victim of injustice, its the perpetrators that need questioning. Our governments embarrass us all by declaring this country an ally of the Saudi's, based of course on arms sales, and instructions from the White House. That great paragon of freedom and human rights ...and drone strikes, Guantanamo Bay etc etc

Please call me any name you like, but NOT a neoliberal! That is an economic ideology that I loathe,detest and profoundly disagree with, its based on neoclassical economic theory, a theory that is totally wrong-headed and incoherent, and has lead to terrible outcomes when dominant in both 1929 - 30s and 2007-09.

I apologise for calling you a neoliberal. Someone on here is always using that term and I thought it was you. I afraid I don't know the difference between all the shades of liberalism. Of course you're right about U.S.A., but I'm afraid I don't agree with you about Shakar Aamer. When he was being interviewed by Victoria Derbyshire on her programme she asked him something difficult and that cuddly exterior turned to something I reckon he was trying to hide and I didn't like what I saw.


No offence taken. It is me that uses the term a lot, but always while being critical of it, in fact I had some stick for using words with the prefix neo, hence my lame attempt at humour with the 'just call me neo' on my profile.

Question; if Aamer was not a Muslim, but had given similar or 'shifty' answers, would you think the same? Also,fire than they did from the enemey its a principle of law that we are all entitled to due process, and are innocent until proven guilty. Aamer was in Guantanamo for 13 years, and was never charged. The US would have prosecuted with glee had there been a shred of evidence that he had done wrong. Imagine what it must have like for him, rendition to Guantanamo, tortured, years locked up in solitary and all the time innocent of any crime. Dislike him, distrust him if you like , but the USA is guilty of gross abuse of both his human rights and international law, and it is this that should be the main topic of discussion, not any imagined flaws in the character of the victim, all of which is mere evidence free speculation.


I don't have any problem with Muslims at all. My next door neighbour is a Muslim and he's such a good neighbour that I thought he was moving recently and I was aghast that I might get a Brit moving in next door to me. I just think that if you are in a war zone and can't prove that you're not there as a combatant, then you are asking for trouble, especially knowing that during the Iraq war British troops suffered more casualties from so-called friendly fire than they did from the enemy. In other words you cannot trust the U.S.A.


Xenophobic comments like that are not acceptable,

If you said you were aghast your British neighbour was moving out in case a Muslim moved in there would, rightly, be an outcry. Also don't confuse religion with nationality, many brits are Muslims, and many Asian people are not.


Tongue in cheek Che, tongue in cheek. I take your post is too.
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