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> Zimbabwe, Mugabe
007
post Jun 3 2008, 07:30 AM
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This has got to stop. Yet another person has been murdered just for speaking out against Mugabe.
As Zimbabwe is not a major oil produced it seems the US and UK are reluctant to do anything about the situation but hopefully the UN and indeed South Africa will finally wake up and do something. Mugabe is literally getting away with murder and "his" people are starving. Inflation is now well over 100,000% and, despite losing the election, Mugabe is still trying to threaten people and butcher his way to victory in the already ridiculous second round....

Although it doesn't affect OUR lives, millions of people are starving and being threatened, beaten and often killed just for this idiot's ego. If you wish to sign the UN petition, please do so using this link.

http://www.helpsavezimbabwe.org

Thanks.
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Mike
post Jun 3 2008, 08:44 AM
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QUOTE (7 @ Jun 3 2008, 08:30 AM) *
This has got to stop. Yet another person has been murdered just for speaking out against Mugabe.
As Zimbabwe is not a major oil produced it seems the US and UK are reluctant to do anything about the situation but hopefully the UN and indeed South Africa will finally wake up and do something. Mugabe is literally getting away with murder and "his" people are starving. Inflation is now well over 100,000% and, despite losing the election, Mugabe is still trying to threaten people and butcher his way to victory in the already ridiculous second round....

Although it doesn't affect OUR lives, millions of people are starving and being threatened, beaten and often killed just for this idiot's ego. If you wish to sign the UN petition, please do so using this link.

http://www.helpsavezimbabwe.org

Thanks.


Not sure that signing the petition will force Mugabe's hand. But at least it's something.

But what primarily are you advocating that we do? Send in the Marines? We did that in Iraq (Saddam wasn't a nice guy to his people either) and got ourselves into a right mess. Same in Afghanistan.

I believe that any intervention by a 'white' nation is doomed to failure. This will need an African solution.





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007
post Jun 3 2008, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE (Mike @ Jun 3 2008, 08:44 AM) *
QUOTE (7 @ Jun 3 2008, 08:30 AM) *
This has got to stop. Yet another person has been murdered just for speaking out against Mugabe.
As Zimbabwe is not a major oil produced it seems the US and UK are reluctant to do anything about the situation but hopefully the UN and indeed South Africa will finally wake up and do something. Mugabe is literally getting away with murder and "his" people are starving. Inflation is now well over 100,000% and, despite losing the election, Mugabe is still trying to threaten people and butcher his way to victory in the already ridiculous second round....

Although it doesn't affect OUR lives, millions of people are starving and being threatened, beaten and often killed just for this idiot's ego. If you wish to sign the UN petition, please do so using this link.

http://www.helpsavezimbabwe.org

Thanks.


Not sure that signing the petition will force Mugabe's hand. But at least it's something.

But what primarily are you advocating that we do? Send in the Marines? We did that in Iraq (Saddam wasn't a nice guy to his people either) and got ourselves into a right mess. Same in Afghanistan.

I believe that any intervention by a 'white' nation is doomed to failure. This will need an African solution.



I guess the only thing we can feasibly do is spread the word and put pressure on governments to distance themselves. The UN can put pressure on Mugabe and Zimbabwe's neighbours, particularly South Africa, can have a go at him rather than ignoring the issues there.


Incidentally, Tonderai Ndira was the 43rd Zimbabwean opposition activist to die in violence since elections in March!

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Devastatin' Dave
post Jun 3 2008, 05:35 PM
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An online petition won't budge anything but I praise your hope, 007.

I think the UK should avoid Zimbabwe like the plague. No one is going to involved in the mess down there. The only possible way the Mugabe regime is going to get overthrown is probably a formation of a rebel army, resulting in a civil war.


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Langley Mill Blu...
post Jun 3 2008, 06:20 PM
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Echo much of the above.

Why is it, apart from the recent elections, that Zimbabwe and Mugabe only seems to be a worthy news item when the cricket team plays there? The calls to boycott the tour begin despite the fact the hundreds of British companies trade there.


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grey seal
post Jun 3 2008, 08:18 PM
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Agree with most that's been said

It is a total disgrace how the country has collapsed - I went there in the 80s soon after Mugabe came to power and it was an absolutely fantastic place.

There's no way that the US or European's can get involved - pressure has to come from the UN and particularly SADC

I'm shocked how much Mbeki appears to support Mugabe - he is supposed to be leading the mediating team and he comes across totally in support of Mugabe

There really is no easy answer to this one - but in the meantime people are dying and being tortured daily just for voting for the "wrong" party

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Neil Fishers Big...
post Jun 4 2008, 08:43 AM
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QUOTE (grey seal @ Jun 3 2008, 09:18 PM) *
Agree with most that's been said

It is a total disgrace how the country has collapsed - I went there in the 80s soon after Mugabe came to power and it was an absolutely fantastic place.

There's no way that the US or European's can get involved - pressure has to come from the UN and particularly SADC

I'm shocked how much Mbeki appears to support Mugabe - he is supposed to be leading the mediating team and he comes across totally in support of Mugabe

There really is no easy answer to this one - but in the meantime people are dying and being tortured daily just for voting for the "wrong" party

In a speech yesterday,at a "Food Conference"(How ironic is that?) Mugabe blames us of course,funny how we don't hear from Peter Hain,who campaigned for a black run Rhodesia,anything to say Peter?


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grey seal
post Jun 4 2008, 12:37 PM
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So NFBF suggests the whole of Zimbabwe's problems were caused by the transfer to majority rule ?

You can't be serious in suggesting that mismanagement of the economy is purely a racial problem - I guess that you more than most on the board can think of at least one European leader similarly guilty

Clearly Mugabe's plociies have been the primary cause of changing Zim from the bread basket of Southern Africa to the famine ravaged country it is today, but that is down more to the policies he has followed rather than the inherent inability of African leaders to create successful economies as the majority of other countries in the region demonstrate.

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007
post Jun 4 2008, 01:42 PM
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Tsvangirai detained in Zimbabwe

Zimbabwe opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai has been detained by police during campaigning for the country's presidential election, his party says.

The Movement for Democratic Change leader was stopped at a roadblock north of Bulawayo at 1000 GMT, party spokesman Nelson Chamisa said.

Armed police surrounded an MDC convoy and refused to let them leave their vehicles, said Mr Chamisa.

"It appears they want to disrupt our campaign programme," he said.

It comes as Zimbabwe prepares for a run-off election between Mr Tsvangirai and President Robert Mugabe on 27 June.

Aid operations suspended

Mr Chamisa called for Mr Tsvangirai's immediate release, adding that without the intervention of the United Nations and the international community it would be impossible to hold free and fair elections in Zimbabwe.

The Zimbabwean government has also come under criticism for restricting the work of aid agencies operating in the country.

The operations of one of the largest groups - Care International - have been suspended amid allegations the group had been campaigning for the opposition.

Care denies that it "has encouraged or tolerated any political activity".

Mr Mugabe is currently attending a UN-sponsored summit on the global food crisis in Rome, where he blamed Western sanctions for Zimbabwe's economic woes.

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Mancot Blue
post Jun 4 2008, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ Jun 4 2008, 09:43 AM) *
Funny how we don't hear from Peter Hain,who campaigned for a black run Rhodesia,anything to say Peter?


Yeah, it's Labour's fault. It's also Labour's fault that we have cancer, AIDS and child abuse in this world...

Yaaaaaawwwnn.
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Boghead
post Jun 5 2008, 04:22 PM
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Not like a commie to defend the Labour party


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post Jun 5 2008, 07:02 PM
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should be done for crimes against humanity and should be bloody shot!
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007
post Jun 5 2008, 09:30 PM
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And here's the latest!



A convoy carrying British and American diplomats has been attacked at gunpoint by around 40 supporters of President Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe, sources say.

Windows of cars carrying the detained diplomats were smashed and the attackers tried to take the keys, a source in the convoy told Sky News.

It was at this point that the westerners made a daring bid to escape in their vehicles as they reportedly pushed other cars out of the way.

Some of the officials were held for several hours but have now all been released. The US said one of its local drivers was beaten up.

A State Department spokesman said the 40-strong mob included "members of the army, Zimbabwe's intelligence organisation and war veterans (retired military-types) and the action was clearly organised".

A Zimbabwean government spokesman denied authorities threatened the diplomats and said the group was addressing a gathering at the home of an opposition party activist.

Foreign Secretary David Miliband said the British diplomats were unharmed and no violence had been directed at them. But he went on: "It is a serious incident and one we have to take seriously."

The incident began at a police checkpoint when diplomats in three vehicles, two American and one British, went to see victims of political violence in Bindura, 50 miles north of the capital Harare.

The police reportedly said they wanted to take the four British and five US diplomats to a police station.

The westerners said they had diplomatic immunity, offered to leave the area but would not go to the station.

Vehicles carrying Zanu-PF government supporters then arrived, blocked the diplomats' cars and spikes were put on the road. They then attacked the cars, it is claimed, and the westerners fled the scene.


The White House has denounced as "outrageous" what it called a "completely unacceptable" attack on the convoy.

Sky's foreign affairs editor Tim Marshall said of the incident: "The British broke away first, got into their vehicle and battered another vehicle out of the road to get out of the way.

"The US diplomats got into the second car, went over some spikes in the road, blew their tyres but got away. The second US vehicle was detained."

Marshall noted there was a stark contrast between the British and US reaction. He said: "The Americans are using pretty tough language. The worst of the violence happened after the British left. The smashing of the windows and reaching into the car occurred when the British had gone.

"The British reponse has been muted. Also, whenever the UK says anything about Zimbabwe, the Zimbabwean government tells its population that this is the voice of the old colonial master and it doesn't play very well."

:: Zimbabwe's government has indefinitely suspended all work by aid groups and non-governmental organisations, accusing a number of breaching their terms of registration.

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grey seal
post Jun 6 2008, 07:56 AM
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We care because we have to

you're attitude is like - if the family next door were abusing thier children you would close the curtains, turn up the tv and say - well we're all right.

No country can exist in isolation - the world is too samll now - and what happens in one country can affect the whole of the world. You have seen what happens in "failed states" - they become centres for terrorism, they threaten neighbouring countries.

Stable "civilsed" countries are in everyones interests, increasing instability - due to civil war or famine increase the numbers of dispalced people moving around the world. People are quick to object to asylum seekers or economic migrants enetring Britain - there are currently thousnads fleeing Zimbabwe - it would be in everone's interests if they felt physically and economically safe enough to return.

Britain became what it is on the backs of countries like Zimbabwe - so surely we should be obliged to pay something back - BUT - it isn't just us that need to care - and it isn't just us that are caring - this is a worldiwde outrage - and many other countries, not just us, are looking for answers.

In a way there isn't much we can do - this isn't a country that we are going to invade to overthrow the government - Africa is too sensitive to it's colonial past to welcome European or American invasions - the struggle against European rule is still too recent a memory to welcome back invasion forces. The answers have to come from within the continent - and if this can be done by peaceful means then it should be. But we shold still care enough to lend whatever aid and support we can to achieve this.

What worries me is the lack of foreign reporting in this country - many newspapers have virtually no foreign news coverage - unless they relate to disatsers - so people lose the ability to place sudeen newsworthy events within a long term context in world events. Nothing happens in isolation - events in seemingly remote locations are becoming increasingly interlinked - so to say that what happens in Africa - or Asia doesn't affect us is simply no longer true.

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007
post Jun 6 2008, 11:21 AM
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Zimbabwe opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai has been detained AGAIN today!
Meanwhile, Mugabe's mob has suspended all foreign aid operations in the country indefinitely. Some 4 million people are relying on this aid for survival.

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007
post Jun 6 2008, 02:56 PM
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And here we go again!


"Zimbabwe's authorities have stopped the opposition presidential candidate Morgan Tsvangirai from campaigning ahead of the 27 June elections."
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grey seal
post Jun 6 2008, 04:17 PM
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"Campaign jingles are back on air, only this time Zanu-PF ones only.

Rumour has it the government has declared that no opposition MDC campaign material will be broadcast in state media - print or electronic.

I am not sure where people heard this, but it certainly seems true.

The jingles I have heard on radio are all for the ruling party and I have seen a number of Mugabe's posters in the state newspaper, but none of MDC leader Morgan Tsvangirai.

For the 29 March election, I remember marvelling at the fact that state media were broadcasting MDC material.

Maybe they think that had a lot to do with the opposition victory.

The atmosphere is different from last time - there is no excitement.

Maybe it is just that we are not talking about how we are going to vote.

Or maybe it is because the official inflation rate is running at 165,000% (unofficially it's been estimated at 1.7m%) and we can all feel it."


free and fair elections ? - If this travesty goes ahead it is going to solve absolutely nothing


This post has been edited by grey seal: Jun 6 2008, 04:17 PM
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Pritchard
post Jun 7 2008, 09:44 PM
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And what is the UN, Britain, or anyone else going to put in place instead? We have a shocking track record at sorting out this stuff.


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newtonblue
post Jun 9 2008, 08:54 PM
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Just a point. Today i tried to send loads of football kit over to a village in Kenya ,but was told that the goverment did not allow this as this would be a negative thing to do . So now have got a village in Tasmania.The point i am trying to make is that these goverment ministers in the poorer countries are only concerned about themselves and not the people. They get richer and the poorer get poorer.


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McSeal
post Jun 10 2008, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE (newtonblue @ Jun 9 2008, 09:54 PM) *
Just a point. Today i tried to send loads of football kit over to a village in Kenya ,but was told that the goverment did not allow this as this would be a negative thing to do . So now have got a village in Tasmania.The point i am trying to make is that these goverment ministers in the poorer countries are only concerned about themselves and not the people. They get richer and the poorer get poorer.

Tasmania ? I think they prefer cricket.

Do you mean Tanzania ?
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007
post Jun 12 2008, 12:20 PM
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QUOTE (newtonblue @ Jun 9 2008, 09:54 PM) *
Just a point. Today i tried to send loads of football kit over to a village in Kenya ,but was told that the goverment did not allow this as this would be a negative thing to do . So now have got a village in Tasmania.The point i am trying to make is that these goverment ministers in the poorer countries are only concerned about themselves and not the people. They get richer and the poorer get poorer.


I wasn't aware that sending things to Kenya would be a problem. I sponsor a child there and I haven't heard of any issues, but fair play to you sending the football kit (although as McSeal said, best send it to Tansania rather than Tasmania....). Things like that are always very much appreciated.
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post Jun 12 2008, 01:45 PM
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Bullet in his brain would be a start


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007
post Jun 13 2008, 10:27 AM
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QUOTE (shauneport @ Jun 12 2008, 01:45 PM) *
Bullet in his brain would be a start


Assuming he actually has one.... Opposition leader arrested yet again yesterday.
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007
post Jun 16 2008, 09:57 AM
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And it continues....

An opposition's wife had her hands and feet cut off and was thrown into a shed, which was then set on fire.
Meanwhile, opposing Mugabe has now been classified as "treason". The Secretary General of the opposition now faces the death penalty for outlining plans to oppose Mugabe in the election.
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Alan
post Jun 17 2008, 07:56 AM
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QUOTE (7 @ Jun 16 2008, 10:57 AM) *
And it continues....

An opposition's wife had her hands and feet cut off and was thrown into a shed, which was then set on fire.

Meanwhile, opposing Mugabe has now been classified as "treason". The Secretary General of the opposition now faces the death penalty for outlining plans to oppose Mugabe in the election.


I read that story the other day. Quite shocking.

It seems that this tactic died out a while back, but now worryingly is coming back. Mugabe believes that the British government are paying people to carry out these attacks and then blaming his party for it.


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