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The Colonel
post Nov 30 2011, 01:48 PM
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At last Wxm have bought whats left of thier club.
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Barney Daniels B...
post Nov 30 2011, 02:30 PM
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is there anything left
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3mm
post Nov 30 2011, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE (Barney Daniels Big Toe @ Nov 30 2011, 02:30 PM) *
is there anything left

Good point. What exactly have they bought?


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Barney Daniels B...
post Nov 30 2011, 03:20 PM
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not a lot, a few players of questionable worth
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Ben
post Nov 30 2011, 03:28 PM
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To be fair its not that different to what the CFU owns.

The big difference is that we do not have any debt, whereas they will have to service quite a significant debt and try to not only break even, but make enough to repay it.


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Chesterfan Corin
post Nov 30 2011, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE (3mm @ Nov 30 2011, 02:48 PM) *
QUOTE (Barney Daniels Big Toe @ Nov 30 2011, 02:30 PM) *
is there anything left

Good point. What exactly have they bought?

They Have bought a pile of Debt
biggrin.gif


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Neil Fishers Big...
post Dec 2 2011, 11:23 PM
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QUOTE (Chesterfan Corin @ Nov 30 2011, 04:47 PM) *
QUOTE (3mm @ Nov 30 2011, 02:48 PM) *
QUOTE (Barney Daniels Big Toe @ Nov 30 2011, 02:30 PM) *
is there anything left

Good point. What exactly have they bought?

They Have bought a pile of Debt
biggrin.gif

..answers to some of those questions below.
http://www.intouchwithmembers.co.uk/lib/el...55578-29874878/


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waggoner
post Dec 3 2011, 10:41 AM
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QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ Dec 2 2011, 11:23 PM) *
QUOTE (Chesterfan Corin @ Nov 30 2011, 04:47 PM) *
QUOTE (3mm @ Nov 30 2011, 02:48 PM) *
QUOTE (Barney Daniels Big Toe @ Nov 30 2011, 02:30 PM) *
is there anything left

Good point. What exactly have they bought?

They Have bought a pile of Debt
biggrin.gif

..answers to some of those questions below.
http://www.intouchwithmembers.co.uk/lib/el...55578-29874878/

so the bottom line is this.....They used to own their own ground and land around it, sold the land to pay off debts and secure the future of the club, now the ground is owned by the uni and nobody knows what their long term plans for the ground are.
They have just bought a mountain of debt off moss (who still owns wrexam student village) and they have no assets just a team and the goodwill of the fans.
The estimated loss for this season alone is anywhere from 750k upwards and they are losing 14k a week! and basically living hand to mouth on the gate money coming in.
What happens if we have a bad winter like last year and they have no games at home for over a month? because theres no money in the tin!.
As for the 500k sweetener off moss thats yet to be handed over its just on paper at the moment.
It looks like bad times are coming in goatsville, and if they don't get promoted they are well and truely screwed! mind you if they do they are screwed anyway!!!! cityscarf.gif
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wynne12obert
post Dec 3 2011, 11:24 AM
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QUOTE (waggoner @ Dec 3 2011, 10:41 AM) *
QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ Dec 2 2011, 11:23 PM) *
QUOTE (Chesterfan Corin @ Nov 30 2011, 04:47 PM) *
QUOTE (3mm @ Nov 30 2011, 02:48 PM) *
QUOTE (Barney Daniels Big Toe @ Nov 30 2011, 02:30 PM) *
is there anything left

Good point. What exactly have they bought?

They Have bought a pile of Debt
biggrin.gif

..answers to some of those questions below.
http://www.intouchwithmembers.co.uk/lib/el...55578-29874878/

so the bottom line is this.....They used to own their own ground and land around it, sold the land to pay off debts and secure the future of the club, now the ground is owned by the uni and nobody knows what their long term plans for the ground are.
They have just bought a mountain of debt off moss (who still owns wrexam student village) and they have no assets just a team and the goodwill of the fans.
The estimated loss for this season alone is anywhere from 750k upwards and they are losing 14k a week! and basically living hand to mouth on the gate money coming in.
What happens if we have a bad winter like last year and they have no games at home for over a month? because theres no money in the tin!.
As for the 500k sweetener off moss thats yet to be handed over its just on paper at the moment.
It looks like bad times are coming in goatsville, and if they don't get promoted they are well and truely screwed! mind you if they do they are screwed anyway!!!! cityscarf.gif


whats their overall debt ?

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Neil Fishers Big...
post Dec 3 2011, 12:11 PM
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QUOTE (wynne12obert @ Dec 3 2011, 11:24 AM) *
QUOTE (waggoner @ Dec 3 2011, 10:41 AM) *
QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ Dec 2 2011, 11:23 PM) *
QUOTE (Chesterfan Corin @ Nov 30 2011, 04:47 PM) *
QUOTE (3mm @ Nov 30 2011, 02:48 PM) *
QUOTE (Barney Daniels Big Toe @ Nov 30 2011, 02:30 PM) *
is there anything left

Good point. What exactly have they bought?

They Have bought a pile of Debt
biggrin.gif

..answers to some of those questions below.
http://www.intouchwithmembers.co.uk/lib/el...55578-29874878/

so the bottom line is this.....They used to own their own ground and land around it, sold the land to pay off debts and secure the future of the club, now the ground is owned by the uni and nobody knows what their long term plans for the ground are.
They have just bought a mountain of debt off moss (who still owns wrexam student village) and they have no assets just a team and the goodwill of the fans.
The estimated loss for this season alone is anywhere from 750k upwards and they are losing 14k a week! and basically living hand to mouth on the gate money coming in.
What happens if we have a bad winter like last year and they have no games at home for over a month? because theres no money in the tin!.
As for the 500k sweetener off moss thats yet to be handed over its just on paper at the moment.
It looks like bad times are coming in goatsville, and if they don't get promoted they are well and truely screwed! mind you if they do they are screwed anyway!!!! cityscarf.gif


whats their overall debt ?

...a lot! rolleyes.gif


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captain duff
post Dec 3 2011, 01:24 PM
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Before I say this I genuinely am not wishing this fate on Wrexham - but if WST do run into financial problems that they can't deal with and have to go into administration, where would that leave things in terms of the fans having any more chances. After all, when us and most of the other clubs that are now fan owned went belly up there was a fan's organisation that could step in and take over the club, and then deal with the FA as the new owners and argue over starting pionts in the league etc. But once an owner has gone into administration are there not rules to prevent the same owner re-starting the same club but under a slightly different name? Therefore if it doesn't work now for WST is that the end of any possibility of a fan owned club down the road?


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TheTheremin
post Dec 3 2011, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE (captain duff @ Dec 3 2011, 01:24 PM) *
Before I say this I genuinely am not wishing this fate on Wrexham - but if WST do run into financial problems that they can't deal with and have to go into administration, where would that leave things in terms of the fans having any more chances. After all, when us and most of the other clubs that are now fan owned went belly up there was a fan's organisation that could step in and take over the club, and then deal with the FA as the new owners and argue over starting pionts in the league etc. But once an owner has gone into administration are there not rules to prevent the same owner re-starting the same club but under a slightly different name? Therefore if it doesn't work now for WST is that the end of any possibility of a fan owned club down the road?


Can't say I know about the full financial ins and outs of what is going on down the road but they seem to have taken on responsibility for some debt and also have a large operating loss projected for this season - £700k has been mentioned.

On the bright side they have the chance of promotion which could wipe away a lot of debt. But it it wise to predicate financial performance for next season on winning that promotion? If they don't go up there will be a huge black hole in the WST finances and they probably won't survive beyond infancy. Maybe they can win in FA Cup today and agin a meal ticket that way.

I think as we've found (as most other fan owned clubs have too) it need to be small steps first with a balanced budget, the club moving through the leagues as it can be afforded. Football can be the worst business for the heart ruling the head but if they think they can take the risk of going for that promotion with consolidation of the new business best happening in L2 then good luck to them. Right now I'd much rather be in our position: debt-free, profitable, vibrant, community-based with the realistic prospect of guaranteed tenure of a ground for years and decades to come. As I said good luck to them because they are really going to need it.

This post has been edited by TheTheremin: Dec 3 2011, 01:46 PM
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Bardamu
post Dec 3 2011, 01:52 PM
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I don't think the new Wrexham ownership has inherited any debt - that was cleared as part of the deal and was basically where the money from the sale of the ground went to. The £750k quoted is the deficit - the difference between projected incomings and expenditure over the season.

In the fans hurry to condemn Geoff Moss, they ignore that he gave them the wherewithal to finance a promotion challenging side, but it has cost far more than the ability of the club to support it. Hence the loss of their main asset, the ground. A similar situation to which Greece finds itself in.

Moving forward, they are very dependent on the generosity of their new landlords, and they desperately need promotion this year, with the access to lucrative income streams that League membership will bring. If they miss out on that, there will need to be some drastic cutting of staff and radically revised expectations of their place in the world.
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WAZ THE BLUE
post Dec 3 2011, 04:39 PM
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QUOTE (3mm @ Nov 30 2011, 02:48 PM) *
QUOTE (Barney Daniels Big Toe @ Nov 30 2011, 02:30 PM) *
is there anything left

Good point. What exactly have they bought?



A set of MASSIVE floodlights biggrin.gif


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stu
post Dec 3 2011, 04:59 PM
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QUOTE (WAZ THE BLUE @ Dec 3 2011, 04:39 PM) *
QUOTE (3mm @ Nov 30 2011, 02:48 PM) *
QUOTE (Barney Daniels Big Toe @ Nov 30 2011, 02:30 PM) *
is there anything left

Good point. What exactly have they bought?



A set of MASSIVE floodlights biggrin.gif



no there rented these days cityscarf.gif
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Canadian Exile
post Dec 3 2011, 05:00 PM
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Through to the FA Cup 3rd round so some money coming their way from that, especially if they get an away draw against a premier league team!!


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open yer eyes ma...
post Dec 4 2011, 06:19 PM
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QUOTE (Canadian Exile @ Dec 3 2011, 05:00 PM) *
Through to the FA Cup 3rd round so some money coming their way from that, especially if they get an away draw against a premier league team!!

Heard a Wxm fan on 606 last night saying they are in desperate financial trouble,despite the fans taking over they are in the brown stuff and a Premier league team away in the 3rd round was a must if they are to survive the season.
Brighton away they got.

Long trip,overnight stay and potentialyl out to team that wont have many through the gate.
Tough times ahead,me thinks.


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bluesince72
post Dec 4 2011, 06:45 PM
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QUOTE (open yer eyes man @ Dec 4 2011, 06:19 PM) *
QUOTE (Canadian Exile @ Dec 3 2011, 05:00 PM) *
Through to the FA Cup 3rd round so some money coming their way from that, especially if they get an away draw against a premier league team!!

Heard a Wxm fan on 606 last night saying they are in desperate financial trouble,despite the fans taking over they are in the brown stuff and a Premier league team away in the 3rd round was a must if they are to survive the season.
Brighton away they got.

Long trip,overnight stay and potentialyl out to team that wont have many through the gate.
Tough times ahead,me thinks.


I would guess that the goats cup run, what they have already got plus 50% of a gate of around 18000 for hopefully getting stuffed at Brighton, has probably extended the day of reckoning by a month or two, and without a big shock at Brighton id guess the goats will be a selling club in January, with their conference championship challenge fading away as a consequence. It appears that they have an unsustainable business plan. The fans have taken over a club with minimal assets, little or no surplus in the bank to survive on and are losing money week by week. Tick tock biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by bluesince72: Dec 4 2011, 06:54 PM
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ulster blue boy
post Dec 4 2011, 07:30 PM
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I can help thinking the good people at our club did a lot of homework prior to taking over.Wrexham on the other hand just went in with both barrels.


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3mm
post Dec 4 2011, 08:26 PM
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Given they're in the 3rd round, Brighton away is about as good as it gets. A nice, long journey with little chance of getting through.


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Big Club Syndrom...
post Dec 4 2011, 08:37 PM
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QUOTE (3mm @ Dec 4 2011, 08:26 PM) *
Given they're in the 3rd round, Brighton away is about as good as it gets. A nice, long journey with little chance of getting through.


Still could have been a lot worse though, good weekend away to a nice new stadium and they have been averaging 20,000 this season with I think 17,000 season ticket holders.
Those figures would suggest that there might be a good turn out and a nice little earner, not quite the pay day we needed but like I said it could have been a lot worse and pulled Crawley away and gone out to scummy Evans FC.

Still, fans united reunited. guiness.gif


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3mm
post Dec 4 2011, 08:40 PM
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QUOTE (Big Club Syndrome @ Dec 4 2011, 08:37 PM) *
QUOTE (3mm @ Dec 4 2011, 08:26 PM) *
Given they're in the 3rd round, Brighton away is about as good as it gets. A nice, long journey with little chance of getting through.


Still could have been a lot worse though, good weekend away to a nice new stadium and they have been averaging 20,000 this season with I think 17,000 season ticket holders.
Those figures would suggest that there might be a good turn out and a nice little earner, not quite the pay day we needed but like I said it could have been a lot worse and pulled Crawley away and gone out to scummy Evans FC.

Still, fans united reunited. guiness.gif

Everyone's happy then smile.gif


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waggoner
post Dec 4 2011, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE (Big Club Syndrome @ Dec 4 2011, 08:37 PM) *
QUOTE (3mm @ Dec 4 2011, 08:26 PM) *
Given they're in the 3rd round, Brighton away is about as good as it gets. A nice, long journey with little chance of getting through.


Still could have been a lot worse though, good weekend away to a nice new stadium and they have been averaging 20,000 this season with I think 17,000 season ticket holders.
Those figures would suggest that there might be a good turn out and a nice little earner, not quite the pay day we needed but like I said it could have been a lot worse and pulled Crawley away and gone out to scummy Evans FC.

Still, fans united reunited. guiness.gif

and if they do have 18000 season ticket holders how many do you thionk would be arsed putting their hands in their pockets to watch brighton play a non league team?
there is more likely going to be 9000 there tbh
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Big Club Syndrom...
post Dec 4 2011, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (waggoner @ Dec 4 2011, 09:00 PM) *
QUOTE (Big Club Syndrome @ Dec 4 2011, 08:37 PM) *
QUOTE (3mm @ Dec 4 2011, 08:26 PM) *
Given they're in the 3rd round, Brighton away is about as good as it gets. A nice, long journey with little chance of getting through.


Still could have been a lot worse though, good weekend away to a nice new stadium and they have been averaging 20,000 this season with I think 17,000 season ticket holders.
Those figures would suggest that there might be a good turn out and a nice little earner, not quite the pay day we needed but like I said it could have been a lot worse and pulled Crawley away and gone out to scummy Evans FC.

Still, fans united reunited. guiness.gif

and if they do have 18000 season ticket holders how many do you thionk would be arsed putting their hands in their pockets to watch brighton play a non league team?
there is more likely going to be 9000 there tbh


Been chatting to a few Brighton fans.

"Hi Wrexham.

Don't take no notice of this poster, he hasn't a clue what he's on about. It'll be a sell out providing you can sell your allocated tickets, you'll be offered the away end 2,400 and if you sell them then you'll get another 1,000.

We sold 17,000 for the Gillingham ( League cup 1st round mickey mouse cup) so will sell out for this one as there could be a £1million at stake providing who goes through and who they get drawn against.

Might have a wager on you to win"

Not a guarantee I know, but they don't have enough seats for fans wanting them for league games.


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waggoner
post Dec 4 2011, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE (Big Club Syndrome @ Dec 4 2011, 09:21 PM) *
QUOTE (waggoner @ Dec 4 2011, 09:00 PM) *
QUOTE (Big Club Syndrome @ Dec 4 2011, 08:37 PM) *
QUOTE (3mm @ Dec 4 2011, 08:26 PM) *
Given they're in the 3rd round, Brighton away is about as good as it gets. A nice, long journey with little chance of getting through.


Still could have been a lot worse though, good weekend away to a nice new stadium and they have been averaging 20,000 this season with I think 17,000 season ticket holders.
Those figures would suggest that there might be a good turn out and a nice little earner, not quite the pay day we needed but like I said it could have been a lot worse and pulled Crawley away and gone out to scummy Evans FC.

Still, fans united reunited. guiness.gif

and if they do have 18000 season ticket holders how many do you thionk would be arsed putting their hands in their pockets to watch brighton play a non league team?
there is more likely going to be 9000 there tbh


Been chatting to a few Brighton fans.

"Hi Wrexham.

Don't take no notice of this poster, he hasn't a clue what he's on about. It'll be a sell out providing you can sell your allocated tickets, you'll be offered the away end 2,400 and if you sell them then you'll get another 1,000.

We sold 17,000 for the Gillingham ( League cup 1st round mickey mouse cup) so will sell out for this one as there could be a £1million at stake providing who goes through and who they get drawn against.

Might have a wager on you to win"

Not a guarantee I know, but they don't have enough seats for fans wanting them for league games.

god you goats don't half talk SH*TE! lol cityscarf.gif cityscarf.gif
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