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> Non League Day, Saturday October 10th
Lobster
post Oct 5 2015, 11:57 AM
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Our game against Lincoln this Saturday will be on Non League Day. Does anyone know if the club has any plans?

I know the club want us to engage with them directly rather than via Deva Chat, but maybe we could use this thread to suggest some ideas that someone could then forward to the club?
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Deva Blue
post Oct 5 2015, 12:08 PM
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Need a way to get the fake Utd, City, Liverpool and Everton supporters in Chester to come to the ground.

Only thing i can think of is handing flyers out in town and putting posters in pubs etc


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iandyChesterCity
post Oct 5 2015, 12:18 PM
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Leaving it very late if they do have anything planned.


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DanLB
post Oct 5 2015, 01:55 PM
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I emailed last Monday (28th) and they said they were still considering what to do. I think it's too late now to do anything of real worth.

My idea was to do a discount offer such as adult admission, parking, a programme and a pint/hot food item for £20.


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a view from outs...
post Oct 5 2015, 02:15 PM
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The NLD website had a list of things clubs could consider as well as a downloadable template for a nonleague day poster. Also the first 50 clubs that contacted the site (way too late now) would be given a copy of FM2016 to give away as a prize. That list -

IDEAS TO INCREASE ATTENDANCE AT YOUR CLUB ON NON-LEAGUE DAY

⦁ Offer free entry or ‘pay what you want’ for all supporters. There have been some phenomenal crowds recorded using these incentives with reciprocal revenue generated through increased purchases of food, drink and merchandise.
⦁ Offer discounts for season ticket holders of Premier League and Championship Clubs
⦁ Discuss moving KO times with leagues and/or nearby clubs, to maximise potential attendance. This is particularly relevant in areas with a high concentration of non-League clubs.
⦁ Offer discounts or free entry to armed forces and emergency services
⦁ Speak to youth teams about being mascots. Twenty two mascots leading both teams out will encourage parents to attend and build relationships
⦁ Organise a “community day” with free coaching, penalty shootout competitions, inflatables and raffles etc.
⦁ Run a Twitter campaign to promote your match. For example, #Target500 if you are trying to attract 500 supporters.
⦁ Try and contact any local celebrities or special guests (Mayor, MP etc) who live in the area who may like to be a guest for the day.
⦁ Incorporate a fund raising initiative. There may be a local cause or charity for which you would like to raise money, thus galvanising community interest
⦁ Ensure the local press are kept abreast of plans and get them to run articles in advance
⦁ Organise a supporter’s match before the game, or run a half time penalty shootout competition
⦁ Run a 5-a-side tournament and invite local teams, newspapers and businesses to play.
⦁ Advertise the event in your local area through posters and fliers
⦁ Run special offers in the bar (e.g. discount drink offers)
⦁ Enter a Non-League Day note on the fixtures in your programme / website to make it look more official
⦁ Use contacts at Premier League and Championship clubs to promote your match through their media channels.
⦁ Issue a commemorative match day programme. This could include submissions from supporters and staff, and is a perfect opportunity to showcase the history of the club and what it has to offer.
⦁ Offer a pickup service on the day for elderly or infirm supporters. Concord Rangers of the Conference South implemented a similar service, to much national acclaim.
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Deva Blue
post Oct 5 2015, 02:20 PM
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QUOTE (a view from outside @ Oct 5 2015, 03:15 PM) *
The NLD website had a list of things clubs could consider as well as a downloadable template for a nonleague day poster. Also the first 50 clubs that contacted the site (way too late now) would be given a copy of FM2016 to give away as a prize. That list -

IDEAS TO INCREASE ATTENDANCE AT YOUR CLUB ON NON-LEAGUE DAY

⦁ Offer free entry or ‘pay what you want’ for all supporters. There have been some phenomenal crowds recorded using these incentives with reciprocal revenue generated through increased purchases of food, drink and merchandise.
⦁ Offer discounts for season ticket holders of Premier League and Championship Clubs
⦁ Discuss moving KO times with leagues and/or nearby clubs, to maximise potential attendance. This is particularly relevant in areas with a high concentration of non-League clubs.
⦁ Offer discounts or free entry to armed forces and emergency services
⦁ Speak to youth teams about being mascots. Twenty two mascots leading both teams out will encourage parents to attend and build relationships
⦁ Organise a “community day” with free coaching, penalty shootout competitions, inflatables and raffles etc.
⦁ Run a Twitter campaign to promote your match. For example, #Target500 if you are trying to attract 500 supporters.
⦁ Try and contact any local celebrities or special guests (Mayor, MP etc) who live in the area who may like to be a guest for the day.
⦁ Incorporate a fund raising initiative. There may be a local cause or charity for which you would like to raise money, thus galvanising community interest
⦁ Ensure the local press are kept abreast of plans and get them to run articles in advance
⦁ Organise a supporter’s match before the game, or run a half time penalty shootout competition
⦁ Run a 5-a-side tournament and invite local teams, newspapers and businesses to play.
⦁ Advertise the event in your local area through posters and fliers
⦁ Run special offers in the bar (e.g. discount drink offers)
⦁ Enter a Non-League Day note on the fixtures in your programme / website to make it look more official
⦁ Use contacts at Premier League and Championship clubs to promote your match through their media channels.
⦁ Issue a commemorative match day programme. This could include submissions from supporters and staff, and is a perfect opportunity to showcase the history of the club and what it has to offer.
⦁ Offer a pickup service on the day for elderly or infirm supporters. Concord Rangers of the Conference South implemented a similar service, to much national acclaim.

I think offering discount for prem season ticket holders would increase the attendance considerably. There's a lot of prem st holders in and around Chester. Should have done this sooner.


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Hugh Jass
post Oct 5 2015, 02:29 PM
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QUOTE (Deva Blue @ Oct 5 2015, 03:20 PM) *
QUOTE (a view from outside @ Oct 5 2015, 03:15 PM) *
The NLD website had a list of things clubs could consider as well as a downloadable template for a nonleague day poster. Also the first 50 clubs that contacted the site (way too late now) would be given a copy of FM2016 to give away as a prize. That list -

IDEAS TO INCREASE ATTENDANCE AT YOUR CLUB ON NON-LEAGUE DAY

⦁ Offer free entry or ‘pay what you want’ for all supporters. There have been some phenomenal crowds recorded using these incentives with reciprocal revenue generated through increased purchases of food, drink and merchandise.
⦁ Offer discounts for season ticket holders of Premier League and Championship Clubs
⦁ Discuss moving KO times with leagues and/or nearby clubs, to maximise potential attendance. This is particularly relevant in areas with a high concentration of non-League clubs.
⦁ Offer discounts or free entry to armed forces and emergency services
⦁ Speak to youth teams about being mascots. Twenty two mascots leading both teams out will encourage parents to attend and build relationships
⦁ Organise a “community day” with free coaching, penalty shootout competitions, inflatables and raffles etc.
⦁ Run a Twitter campaign to promote your match. For example, #Target500 if you are trying to attract 500 supporters.
⦁ Try and contact any local celebrities or special guests (Mayor, MP etc) who live in the area who may like to be a guest for the day.
⦁ Incorporate a fund raising initiative. There may be a local cause or charity for which you would like to raise money, thus galvanising community interest
⦁ Ensure the local press are kept abreast of plans and get them to run articles in advance
⦁ Organise a supporter’s match before the game, or run a half time penalty shootout competition
⦁ Run a 5-a-side tournament and invite local teams, newspapers and businesses to play.
⦁ Advertise the event in your local area through posters and fliers
⦁ Run special offers in the bar (e.g. discount drink offers)
⦁ Enter a Non-League Day note on the fixtures in your programme / website to make it look more official
⦁ Use contacts at Premier League and Championship clubs to promote your match through their media channels.
⦁ Issue a commemorative match day programme. This could include submissions from supporters and staff, and is a perfect opportunity to showcase the history of the club and what it has to offer.
⦁ Offer a pickup service on the day for elderly or infirm supporters. Concord Rangers of the Conference South implemented a similar service, to much national acclaim.

I think offering discount for prem season ticket holders would increase the attendance considerably. There's a lot of prem st holders in and around Chester. Should have done this sooner.



Didnt a certain Mr Guterman once trail that idea?
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Jay Hawks
post Oct 6 2015, 06:07 AM
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I have a better idea for increasing the crowd on Saturday:

Beat Barrow tonight cityscarf.gif


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MPW
post Oct 6 2015, 07:19 AM
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I'm disappointed that we have not yet organised anything for Saturday.

With England playing Friday night, its a huge opportunity to attract any floating fans to the game with some form of special offer.
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Saltney Blueboy
post Oct 6 2015, 08:00 AM
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The Board (Grenville) did say that the Community Trust were doing something but wasn't sure what

CFU Secretary, Marion Needham, will find out and add to minutes for publishing on CFU website


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Churton Blue
post Oct 6 2015, 08:26 AM
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QUOTE (Saltney Blueboy @ Oct 6 2015, 09:00 AM) *
The Board (Grenville) did say that the Community Trust were doing something but wasn't sure what

CFU Secretary, Marion Needham, will find out and add to minutes for publishing on CFU website


Incentives to attend can only be offered by the club. The same goes for advertising the fact that it is National Non League Day.

Any activity by the Community Trust will not be noticed by the vast majority of supporters or potential supporters !
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Hoole Seal
post Oct 6 2015, 08:43 AM
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QUOTE (Deva Blue @ Oct 5 2015, 03:20 PM) *
QUOTE (a view from outside @ Oct 5 2015, 03:15 PM) *
The NLD website had a list of things clubs could consider as well as a downloadable template for a nonleague day poster. Also the first 50 clubs that contacted the site (way too late now) would be given a copy of FM2016 to give away as a prize. That list -

IDEAS TO INCREASE ATTENDANCE AT YOUR CLUB ON NON-LEAGUE DAY

⦁ Offer free entry or ‘pay what you want’ for all supporters. There have been some phenomenal crowds recorded using these incentives with reciprocal revenue generated through increased purchases of food, drink and merchandise.
⦁ Offer discounts for season ticket holders of Premier League and Championship Clubs
⦁ Discuss moving KO times with leagues and/or nearby clubs, to maximise potential attendance. This is particularly relevant in areas with a high concentration of non-League clubs.
⦁ Offer discounts or free entry to armed forces and emergency services
⦁ Speak to youth teams about being mascots. Twenty two mascots leading both teams out will encourage parents to attend and build relationships
⦁ Organise a “community day” with free coaching, penalty shootout competitions, inflatables and raffles etc.
⦁ Run a Twitter campaign to promote your match. For example, #Target500 if you are trying to attract 500 supporters.
⦁ Try and contact any local celebrities or special guests (Mayor, MP etc) who live in the area who may like to be a guest for the day.
⦁ Incorporate a fund raising initiative. There may be a local cause or charity for which you would like to raise money, thus galvanising community interest
⦁ Ensure the local press are kept abreast of plans and get them to run articles in advance
⦁ Organise a supporter’s match before the game, or run a half time penalty shootout competition
⦁ Run a 5-a-side tournament and invite local teams, newspapers and businesses to play.
⦁ Advertise the event in your local area through posters and fliers
⦁ Run special offers in the bar (e.g. discount drink offers)
⦁ Enter a Non-League Day note on the fixtures in your programme / website to make it look more official
⦁ Use contacts at Premier League and Championship clubs to promote your match through their media channels.
⦁ Issue a commemorative match day programme. This could include submissions from supporters and staff, and is a perfect opportunity to showcase the history of the club and what it has to offer.
⦁ Offer a pickup service on the day for elderly or infirm supporters. Concord Rangers of the Conference South implemented a similar service, to much national acclaim.

I think offering discount for prem season ticket holders would increase the attendance considerably. There's a lot of prem st holders in and around Chester. Should have done this sooner.


Nice gesture, but in principle I think it's fundamentally wrong to charge season ticket holders of other clubs less than our own fans pay. The first suggestion in that list (free entry or pay what you want) is a far better way of attracting other football fans. We'd make extra cash in the bar, shop and tea stands, and even under that initiative, our own fans would probably pay something on the gate to get in. I know I would.

The Community Day and pickup service are also good ideas in that list
.
QUOTE (Hugh Jass @ Oct 5 2015, 03:29 PM) *
Didnt a certain Mr Guterman once trail that idea?


He did something similar. Can't remember the ins and outs of it, but I'm sure it was scrapped. Can remember some Tranmere fans loving the fact they could get in cheaper than we could. Not a great idea, it has to be a level playing field.


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GaroldBlue
post Oct 6 2015, 12:20 PM
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QUOTE (Saltney Blueboy @ Oct 6 2015, 09:00 AM) *
The Board (Grenville) did say that the Community Trust were doing something but wasn't sure what

CFU Secretary, Marion Needham, will find out and add to minutes for publishing on CFU website


I'm sorry but that's poor. It's all well and good the community trust doing something but it is less than a week away and the chairman/board have no idea what's being done,tt should be out in all media outlets already - I would have thought this was more of a commercial opportunity too?


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Bjorn a Blue
post Oct 6 2015, 12:35 PM
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There are plenty of ideas and the club should have announced plans for it at least a week in advance of the game IMO. It's poor that nothing has been sorted - hopefully they come up with something, although even if it's today it won't give people much notice.


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Derry Exile
post Oct 6 2015, 12:59 PM
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Going forward, once we have enough bodies on the board and volunteers to undertake the work - we need to be in a position to be planning events for games a month in advance. That way we are then in a position - with time to spare to organise, and suitably advertise any specific events, and/or offers to the existing fanbase and the wider community.

Leaving things to last minute - as seems to be happening now - with nobody knowing or understanding what we're doing for Non-League day is not very good at all, and may again be due to a lack of volunteers/directors that we have at the club or on the CFU board at the moment!


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Saltney Blueboy
post Oct 6 2015, 01:19 PM
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QUOTE (Derry Exile @ Oct 6 2015, 01:59 PM) *
Going forward, once we have enough bodies on the board and volunteers to undertake the work - we need to be in a position to be planning events for games a month in advance. That way we are then in a position - with time to spare to organise, and suitably advertise any specific events, and/or offers to the existing fanbase and the wider community.

Leaving things to last minute - as seems to be happening now - with nobody knowing or understanding what we're doing for Non-League day is not very good at all, and may again be due to a lack of volunteers/directors that we have at the club or on the CFU board at the moment!



Totally agree.

What also bothers me is that when we do have volunteers we don't seem able to keep them and the cause of that needs to be addressed as soon as possible



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Deva Blue
post Oct 6 2015, 01:27 PM
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On a post on a different topic a few weeks back, somebody said they were handing out flyers in town before the Lincoln game.

I'm wondering if that's still going ahead because i'm happy to join in with that, can't remember who it was though.


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Derry Exile
post Oct 6 2015, 01:36 PM
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QUOTE (Saltney Blueboy @ Oct 6 2015, 02:19 PM) *
QUOTE (Derry Exile @ Oct 6 2015, 01:59 PM) *
Going forward, once we have enough bodies on the board and volunteers to undertake the work - we need to be in a position to be planning events for games a month in advance. That way we are then in a position - with time to spare to organise, and suitably advertise any specific events, and/or offers to the existing fanbase and the wider community.

Leaving things to last minute - as seems to be happening now - with nobody knowing or understanding what we're doing for Non-League day is not very good at all, and may again be due to a lack of volunteers/directors that we have at the club or on the CFU board at the moment!



Totally agree.

What also bothers me is that when we do have volunteers we don't seem able to keep them and the cause of that needs to be addressed as soon as possible


Better communication would help. If we have any events coming up where we need volunteers help, such as when we get a stand at the Christmas Fayre for example at the Town Hall. Then put a calendar out to all the CFU Membership again 1 or 2 months in advance with dates and times of what cover we need, then keep it going out on a fortnightly basis until we have the cover needed in place.

It's only a small job, can take about an hour to knock up a flier on the Microsoft Publisher or Powerpoint with what we have planned at the club.

Could also knock up a spreadsheet on Excel with a mastercopy for all the events we have planned, and then keep that updated with the names and numbers of volunteers etc per day/event.

Loads of things we could do.


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Derry Exile
post Oct 6 2015, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE (Deva Blue @ Oct 6 2015, 02:27 PM) *
On a post on a different topic a few weeks back, somebody said they were handing out flyers in town before the Lincoln game.

I'm wondering if that's still going ahead because i'm happy to join in with that, can't remember who it was though.


Handing out fliers is another one, just put it out there to the membership that we're doing a flier drive in the Town Centre through the club, don't just advertise the one game though, do it for the month, list the fixtures we have at home and get out there and sell it to the people of Chester.

Put a slant on it that if you you show your flier at the turnstile then kids go free (as long as accompanied by a full paying adult) for one of those home games advertised on the front of the leaflet. Front of the Flier put the next months worth of fixtures along with the prices, then on the back list the remaining home fixtures.

Make it an attractive proposition to your average joe on the street with offers on admission, give them an idea of when we have a game on, (times and dates), and you never know, we might just attract a few extra bums on seats!


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post Oct 6 2015, 02:34 PM
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QUOTE (Deva Blue @ Oct 6 2015, 02:27 PM) *
On a post on a different topic a few weeks back, somebody said they were handing out flyers in town before the Lincoln game.

I'm wondering if that's still going ahead because i'm happy to join in with that, can't remember who it was though.

It was Dorset Blue, but I'm not certain he's still doing it as he had issues with the Club's health and safety and safeguarding policies.


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Deva Blue
post Oct 7 2015, 01:30 AM
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QUOTE (Derry Exile @ Oct 6 2015, 02:47 PM) *
QUOTE (Deva Blue @ Oct 6 2015, 02:27 PM) *
On a post on a different topic a few weeks back, somebody said they were handing out flyers in town before the Lincoln game.

I'm wondering if that's still going ahead because i'm happy to join in with that, can't remember who it was though.


Handing out fliers is another one, just put it out there to the membership that we're doing a flier drive in the Town Centre through the club, don't just advertise the one game though, do it for the month, list the fixtures we have at home and get out there and sell it to the people of Chester.

Put a slant on it that if you you show your flier at the turnstile then kids go free (as long as accompanied by a full paying adult) for one of those home games advertised on the front of the leaflet. Front of the Flier put the next months worth of fixtures along with the prices, then on the back list the remaining home fixtures.

Make it an attractive proposition to your average joe on the street with offers on admission, give them an idea of when we have a game on, (times and dates), and you never know, we might just attract a few extra bums on seats!


Great idea. It's so effective and easy to do. Can someone contact the club and put forward this idea? Imagine if we were organised!


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Alan
post Oct 7 2015, 08:00 AM
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QUOTE (Derry Exile @ Oct 6 2015, 02:47 PM) *
QUOTE (Deva Blue @ Oct 6 2015, 02:27 PM) *
On a post on a different topic a few weeks back, somebody said they were handing out flyers in town before the Lincoln game.

I'm wondering if that's still going ahead because i'm happy to join in with that, can't remember who it was though.


Handing out fliers is another one, just put it out there to the membership that we're doing a flier drive in the Town Centre through the club, don't just advertise the one game though, do it for the month, list the fixtures we have at home and get out there and sell it to the people of Chester.

Put a slant on it that if you you show your flier at the turnstile then kids go free (as long as accompanied by a full paying adult) for one of those home games advertised on the front of the leaflet. Front of the Flier put the next months worth of fixtures along with the prices, then on the back list the remaining home fixtures.

Make it an attractive proposition to your average joe on the street with offers on admission, give them an idea of when we have a game on, (times and dates), and you never know, we might just attract a few extra bums on seats!


Brilliant.

I would also suggest adding a space so an email address could be added. When people bring the flyer to the turnstile the information could be detached and later added to whatever database the club has. In the future people could be told of matches and events happening at the club, be invited to join the CFU, offered a comeback offer for a one off game for example. When you have somebody's details, the possibilities are endless.


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post Oct 7 2015, 09:59 AM
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QUOTE (Alan @ Oct 7 2015, 09:00 AM) *
QUOTE (Derry Exile @ Oct 6 2015, 02:47 PM) *
QUOTE (Deva Blue @ Oct 6 2015, 02:27 PM) *
On a post on a different topic a few weeks back, somebody said they were handing out flyers in town before the Lincoln game.

I'm wondering if that's still going ahead because i'm happy to join in with that, can't remember who it was though.


Handing out fliers is another one, just put it out there to the membership that we're doing a flier drive in the Town Centre through the club, don't just advertise the one game though, do it for the month, list the fixtures we have at home and get out there and sell it to the people of Chester.

Put a slant on it that if you you show your flier at the turnstile then kids go free (as long as accompanied by a full paying adult) for one of those home games advertised on the front of the leaflet. Front of the Flier put the next months worth of fixtures along with the prices, then on the back list the remaining home fixtures.

Make it an attractive proposition to your average joe on the street with offers on admission, give them an idea of when we have a game on, (times and dates), and you never know, we might just attract a few extra bums on seats!


Brilliant.

I would also suggest adding a space so an email address could be added. When people bring the flyer to the turnstile the information could be detached and later added to whatever database the club has. In the future people could be told of matches and events happening at the club, be invited to join the CFU, offered a comeback offer for a one off game for example. When you have somebody's details, the possibilities are endless.



Spot on - if you was from Barnsley, being told every other day about fixtures and news via email must bring some extra seats on bums. Obviously for us who received them after buying tickets for the away day last season, they're a bloody pain in the a**e!

Definitely worth considering, and as you have mentioned in another thread - perhaps this could be done for 8 hours a week in a part-time role.


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post Oct 7 2015, 10:24 AM
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I was going to do all that this coming Friday and the Morning of the game. I was going to print of 200+ future fixtures, 50 CFU membership forms, and 50+ A document about what CFC does within its Community I.e it's links with the uni, soccer schools, youth team work etc. Etc.I was also going to collect names of interested people and families to be put on a database at the club where ideally an offer could be made I.e (from the club) we see your a new name and address how about we give you 1 adult and kid ticket for £10 for next home game with a 20% discount voucher to be used in the clubshop only for that game.

I would have brought in all the independent shops to have our future fixture flyers on shop windows and/or near the counter. Those cigarette cases shops now need look great advertising potential don't they?

However I was told by Tracey Smith (nee Wainwright) and Neil Bellis I had to use official branded fixture cards and posters only (sponsorship reasons) . Remember those fixture cards we got at the start of the season? Well Neil told me the club had loads left so could hand them out. But when I spoke to Tracey I was told there was none left and I could hand out official branded flyers but I would have to pay for them to be printed.

I was also told I had to register as a Volunteer at the Club and sit through a H&S course involving RA's on how to open a fire exit door even though I'll be walking around the streets of Chester engaging in people.

It doesn't matter I have my own personal liability insurance, I wrote my own RA's and the only walking tour guide in Poole to accommodate wheel chair users. They from my point of view tried to fleece me and tried to belittle me so I refused and withdrew my offer to help.

When I spoke out I got the usual reply "Your comments are hurting the club" sorry but I see the backwards mentality and the poor communication between staff (some on paid contracts) as hurting the club more than any comment I make.

This post has been edited by DorsetBlue: Oct 7 2015, 10:33 AM
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Deva Blue
post Oct 7 2015, 10:39 AM
Post #25


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QUOTE (DorsetBlue @ Oct 7 2015, 11:24 AM) *
I was going to do all that this coming Friday and the Morning of the game. I was going to print of 200+ future fixtures, 50 CFU membership forms, and 50+ A document about what CFC does within its Community I.e it's links with the uni, soccer schools, youth team work etc. Etc.I was also going to collect names of interested people and families to be put on a database at the club where ideally an offer could be made I.e (from the club) we see your a new name and address how about we give you 1 adult and kid ticket for £10 for next home game with a 20% discount voucher to be used in the clubshop only for that game.

I would have brought in all the independent shops to have our future fixture flyers on shop windows and/or near the counter. Those cigarette cases shops now need look great advertising potential don't they?

However I was told by Tracey Smith (nee Wainwright) and Neil Bellis I had to use official branded fixture cards and posters only (sponsorship reasons) . Remember those fixture cards we got at the start of the season? Well Neil told me the club had loads left so could hand them out. But when I spoke to Tracey I was told there was none left and I could hand out official branded flyers but I would have to pay for them to be printed.

I was also told I had to register as a Volunteer at the Club and sit through a H&S course involving RA's on how to open a fire exit door even though I'll be walking around the streets of Chester engaging in people.

It doesn't matter I have my own personal liability insurance, I wrote my own RA's and the only walking tour guide in Poole to accommodate wheel chair users. They from my point of view tried to fleece me and tried to belittle me so I refused and withdrew my offer to help.

When I spoke out I got the usual reply "Your comments are hurting the club" sorry but I see the backwards mentality and the poor communication between staff (some on paid contracts) as hurting the club more than any comment I make.

If this is true, for me, this is unreal. In what world would they turn down a passionate, volunteering fan. I thought the club was all about volunteers.
Probably over-exxagerating a tad but i thought this was meant to be our club, our community etc etc. Certainly doesn't seem it.
Before someone comments, yes i know the volunteers do a great job. But more organisation is needed, especially as the payed role is involved.


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