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> Thierry Henry cheat?, If so,should he be punished?
Neil Fishers Big...
post Nov 19 2009, 09:59 AM
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http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/obvious-hand...and-video-27043

I think the time has come,when in incidents like this,and "The hand of God" incident,that the players responsible are banned from the competition that the offence takes place in.


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vaughan out
post Nov 19 2009, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ Nov 19 2009, 09:59 AM) *


No way I remember when Maradona did it to England and all my Irish friends thought it hilarious, what goes around comes around
Well done Thierry-Henry my hero. bowdown.gif


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Chris
post Nov 19 2009, 10:06 AM
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Oh, blatantly - but he won't be punished, will he? It'll be brushed under the carpet by next week, forgotten about. FIFA have what they wanted now too, with France in South Africa rather than Ireland.
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Saltney Blue
post Nov 19 2009, 10:16 AM
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QUOTE (Chris @ Nov 19 2009, 10:06 AM) *
Oh, blatantly - but he won't be punished, will he? It'll be brushed under the carpet by next week, forgotten about. FIFA have what they wanted now too, with France in South Africa rather than Ireland.


Spot on Chris, I watched the game online and it was a clear hand ball which the officials should have picked up. Additionally, I'm sure it was borderline offside.

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Goats 'n Roses
post Nov 19 2009, 10:21 AM
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QUOTE (vaughan out @ Nov 19 2009, 10:04 AM) *
QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ Nov 19 2009, 09:59 AM) *


No way I remember when Maradona did it to England and all my Irish friends thought it hilarious, what goes around comes around
Well done Thierry-Henry my hero. bowdown.gif



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Almost Blue
post Nov 19 2009, 10:27 AM
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QUOTE (Chris @ Nov 19 2009, 10:06 AM) *
Oh, blatantly - but he won't be punished, will he? It'll be brushed under the carpet by next week, forgotten about. FIFA have what they wanted now too, with France in South Africa rather than Ireland.

Ok, France may be more glamorous than Ireland . . . but I know who would have had a bigger following, and spent loads more on guiness.gif


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Jimianto
post Nov 19 2009, 10:29 AM
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It was just one incident in a game full. The ref did basically OK, especially when Anelka did his swan dive. Just think if that had have been given, then would people be saying the same thing. At the end of the day (footy cliche) the result will not alter and Henry has got to live with it.

I lip read him saying 'Sorry' at least 4 times to Richard Dunne after the game and the man knew he had made a 'mistake'. These issues are common place and in every game a cheating incident of some degree will take place these days. Yes, this one was a biggy, but that's football and FIFA won't shed any tears.
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Neil Fishers Big...
post Nov 19 2009, 10:29 AM
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QUOTE (Chris @ Nov 19 2009, 10:06 AM) *
Oh, blatantly - but he won't be punished, will he? It'll be brushed under the carpet by next week, forgotten about. FIFA have what they wanted now too, with France in South Africa rather than Ireland.


You really do despair don't you? What has happened to the "Beautiful game?" The "Arranged" play-offs,and now this.
I played in my usual 5-a-side game last night,it was played in the usual good spirit with both sides wanting to win,some good competitive tackling from both sides,just as it has been for the last 25 years,thank God i have that to keep my faith in this great game of ours which has been soiled and tainted in recent years by the lure of money!

This no "Accidental hand ball,he pushes the ball with his hand!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGB5BsJN5gI


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Saltney Blue
post Nov 19 2009, 10:34 AM
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QUOTE (Jimianto @ Nov 19 2009, 10:29 AM) *
It was just one incident in a game full. The ref did basically OK, especially when Anelka did his swan dive.


Anelka should have picked up a yellow for the dive! The ref was not OK!
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Jimianto
post Nov 19 2009, 10:42 AM
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QUOTE (Saltney Blue @ Nov 19 2009, 10:34 AM) *
QUOTE (Jimianto @ Nov 19 2009, 10:29 AM) *
It was just one incident in a game full. The ref did basically OK, especially when Anelka did his swan dive.


Anelka should have picked up a yellow for the dive! The ref was not OK!


Yes, true and so should both Diarras in midfield, but I still think he did OK, as in 6.5 out of 10 performance. He obviously wasn't brilliant though!
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Dragonslayer
post Nov 19 2009, 11:15 AM
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QUOTE (Jimianto @ Nov 19 2009, 10:42 AM) *
QUOTE (Saltney Blue @ Nov 19 2009, 10:34 AM) *
QUOTE (Jimianto @ Nov 19 2009, 10:29 AM) *
It was just one incident in a game full. The ref did basically OK, especially when Anelka did his swan dive.


Anelka should have picked up a yellow for the dive! The ref was not OK!


Yes, true and so should both Diarras in midfield, but I still think he did OK, as in 6.5 out of 10 performance. He obviously wasn't brilliant though!


I think that the referee's view was probably obstructed, but where were the other officials? I feel for the Irish team, to miss out on playing in the World Cup Finals through blatant cheating it must be heartbreaking. This defeat will have cost the Irish FA an awful lot of money. In my opinion with taking into account what's at stake, FIFA should order the game to be replayed, with Henry banned from taking part. This is another case for television technology to be employed in games of this magnitude.
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vaughan out
post Nov 19 2009, 12:11 PM
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QUOTE (Dragonslayer @ Nov 19 2009, 11:15 AM) *
QUOTE (Jimianto @ Nov 19 2009, 10:42 AM) *
QUOTE (Saltney Blue @ Nov 19 2009, 10:34 AM) *
QUOTE (Jimianto @ Nov 19 2009, 10:29 AM) *
It was just one incident in a game full. The ref did basically OK, especially when Anelka did his swan dive.


Anelka should have picked up a yellow for the dive! The ref was not OK!


Yes, true and so should both Diarras in midfield, but I still think he did OK, as in 6.5 out of 10 performance. He obviously wasn't brilliant though!


I think that the referee's view was probably obstructed, but where were the other officials? I feel for the Irish team, to miss out on playing in the World Cup Finals through blatant cheating it must be heartbreaking. This defeat will have cost the Irish FA an awful lot of money. In my opinion with taking into account what's at stake, FIFA should order the game to be replayed, with Henry banned from taking part. This is another case for television technology to be employed in games of this magnitude.


If Chester were playing in an important match and one of our players handled the ball and we subsequently scored, nobody on this site would have any problem whatsoever.EOS


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Chester Lion
post Nov 19 2009, 12:20 PM
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QUOTE (vaughan out @ Nov 19 2009, 12:11 PM) *
If Chester were playing in an important match and one of our players handled the ball and we subsequently scored, nobody on this site would have any problem whatsoever.EOS


Correct but thats how football works.. if you benefit from the cheating then you (in most cases) laugh about it and justify it, if you lose out as a result of the cheating you moan and call the cheater a twunt.


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vaughan out
post Nov 19 2009, 12:32 PM
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QUOTE (Chester Lion @ Nov 19 2009, 12:20 PM) *
QUOTE (vaughan out @ Nov 19 2009, 12:11 PM) *
If Chester were playing in an important match and one of our players handled the ball and we subsequently scored, nobody on this site would have any problem whatsoever.EOS


Correct but thats how football works.. if you benefit from the cheating then you (in most cases) laugh about it and justify it, if you lose out as a result of the cheating you moan and call the cheater a twunt.


Totally agree it's just the holier than thou attitude of certain people on this site, sh1t happens live with it, and unless I am mistaken Ireland is as much a foreign country as France, someone needs to tell SKY that, the way they were going on I thought one of the home nations was playing.


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AndyHa
post Nov 19 2009, 12:38 PM
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QUOTE (vaughan out @ Nov 19 2009, 12:11 PM) *
QUOTE (Dragonslayer @ Nov 19 2009, 11:15 AM) *
QUOTE (Jimianto @ Nov 19 2009, 10:42 AM) *
QUOTE (Saltney Blue @ Nov 19 2009, 10:34 AM) *
QUOTE (Jimianto @ Nov 19 2009, 10:29 AM) *
It was just one incident in a game full. The ref did basically OK, especially when Anelka did his swan dive.


Anelka should have picked up a yellow for the dive! The ref was not OK!


Yes, true and so should both Diarras in midfield, but I still think he did OK, as in 6.5 out of 10 performance. He obviously wasn't brilliant though!


I think that the referee's view was probably obstructed, but where were the other officials? I feel for the Irish team, to miss out on playing in the World Cup Finals through blatant cheating it must be heartbreaking. This defeat will have cost the Irish FA an awful lot of money. In my opinion with taking into account what's at stake, FIFA should order the game to be replayed, with Henry banned from taking part. This is another case for television technology to be employed in games of this magnitude.


If Chester were playing in an important match and one of our players handled the ball and we subsequently scored, nobody on this site would have any problem whatsoever.EOS

Tend to agree with you there. Quite like it if it was against the goats as well biggrin.gif


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Citizen Erased
post Nov 19 2009, 12:47 PM
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Sad indictement of football and it's fans when people think they are justified in saying "it's happened, get over it"

He cheated, quite simply. Same as Eduardo did against Celtic. It doesn't matter what's at stake in the game, if a player is proven to have cheated (there will always be grey areas) then they should be punished.

The ball didn't just hit henry's hand, he moved his hand towards it and cupped it with his hand and because he did this, Ireland will not be going to the World Cup. Yes, the referee or linesman should have spotted it but FIFA should come down hard on Henry because it's obvious that he cheated.

But of course, as many have said, they've got what they wanted with France being at the World Cup. I hope they get knocked out without scoring a goal like in 2002.

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AndyHa
post Nov 19 2009, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE (Citizen Erased @ Nov 19 2009, 12:47 PM) *
Sad indictement of football and it's fans when people think they are justified in saying "it's happened, get over it"

He cheated, quite simply. Same as Eduardo did against Celtic. It doesn't matter what's at stake in the game, if a player is proven to have cheated (there will always be grey areas) then they should be punished.

The ball didn't just hit henry's hand, he moved his hand towards it and cupped it with his hand and because he did this, Ireland will not be going to the World Cup. Yes, the referee or linesman should have spotted it but FIFA should come down hard on Henry because it's obvious that he cheated.

But of course, as many have said, they've got what they wanted with France being at the World Cup. I hope they get knocked out without scoring a goal like in 2002.

Trouble is CE cheating is rife throughout the game. You only have to go and watch any game and players are falling over as if hit by a 12 bore shotgun. How you stop it is a problem - on this occaison what would you do
play the game again
award the game to Ireland
punnish Henry - fine or suspension.

Whatever you do it would not be the same result as if the ref had seen the handball. I honestly do not know what the answer is, maybe when a ref decides someone has dived or cheated they are sent off. This may of course backfire as it puts even more pressure on them from clubs and managers. The only way I can see things getting better are meaningful punishments. Points deducted for sendings off, not just touchline bans for managers but total bans from grounds and communication during the game. Hit the players and managers hard when they transgress the rules and also the club as well.


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post Nov 19 2009, 02:04 PM
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If this had happened to England the Irish would be doing a jig....Laugh? i nearly bought a round.
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post Nov 19 2009, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE (Citizen Erased @ Nov 19 2009, 12:47 PM) *
Sad indictement of football and it's fans when people think they are justified in saying "it's happened, get over it"

He cheated, quite simply. Same as Eduardo did against Celtic. It doesn't matter what's at stake in the game, if a player is proven to have cheated (there will always be grey areas) then they should be punished.

The ball didn't just hit henry's hand, he moved his hand towards it and cupped it with his hand and because he did this, Ireland will not be going to the World Cup. Yes, the referee or linesman should have spotted it but FIFA should come down hard on Henry because it's obvious that he cheated.

But of course, as many have said, they've got what they wanted with France being at the World Cup. I hope they get knocked out without scoring a goal like in 2002.

Henrys handball is not the reason Ireland are not going to the world cup,the scores would have been level if it was disallowed,it then MIGHT have gone on to pens,where Ireland MIGHT have won or lost.
its all pie in the sky


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Chris
post Nov 19 2009, 03:18 PM
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The Irish FA are reportedly lodging an appeal with FIFA asking that the game be replayed. What Henry did was nothing short of disgraceful, but replaying the game really isn't the answer. What if there's a contentious decision in the replayed match? What if France win 3-0; will Ireland still say it's not fair because they should've won (only taking the match to penalties, lest we forget) first time round?

The only sensible course of action I can see is to ban deliberate cheats for significant periods. It's done for players who have taken drugs - why not for players who have acted against the laws of the game in such a flagrant manner? Only trouble there is that you have to apply that policy across the board then, and that's difficult to enforce and police given the number of games and incidents that could be taken into consideration. It's football - these things happen. Should they happen less? Yes. Should Henry be thoroughly ashamed of himself and criticised for his actions? Yes. Is there anything that can be done about it now? Not really.
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post Nov 19 2009, 04:10 PM
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Fair-Play Code

The FIFA Fair Play Code for football encapsulates all of the sporting, moral and ethical principles for which FIFA has always stood and for which it will continue to fight in the future, regardless of the influences and pressures that may be brought to bear.

The ten golden rules not only serve as a credo for FIFA as world football's governing body, but they also reinforce the sense of fraternity and cooperation among the members of the worldwide football family.

1. Play fair
Winning is without value if victory has been achieved unfairly or dishonestly. Cheating is easy, but brings no pleasure. Playing fair requires courage and character. It is also more satisfying. Fair play always has its reward, even when the game is lost. Playing fair earns respect, while cheating only brings shame. Remember: it is only a game. And games are pointless unless played fairly.

2. Play to win but accept defeat with dignity
Winning is the object of playing any game. Never set out to lose. If you do not play to win, you are cheating your opponents, deceiving those who are watching, and also fooling yourself. Never give up against stronger opponents but never relent against weaker ones. It is an insult to any opponent to play at less than full strength. Play to win, until the final whistle. But remember nobody wins all the time. You win some, you lose some. Learn to lose graciously. Do not seek excuses for defeat. Genuine reasons will always be self-evident. Congratulate the winners with good grace. Do not blame the referee or anyone else. Be determined to do better next time. Good losers earn more respect than bad winners.

3. Observe the Laws of the Game
All games need rules to guide them. Without rules, there would be chaos. The rules of football are simple and easy to learn. Make sure you learn them; it will help you to understand the game better. Understanding the game better will make you a better player. It is equally important to understand the spirit of the rules. They are designed to make the game fun to play and fun to watch. By sticking to the rules, the game will be more enjoyable.

etc etc.

No cojones fifa.


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KJ Blue
post Nov 19 2009, 04:17 PM
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One of the best things about football is the talking points and the contriversy.

You wont get technology in football cos this means all those footballing bods at Fifa and Uefa will have nothing to take 3 weeks to decide over and they will be surplus to requirements. No way there gona vote in what will remove there job.

The game can not be replayed, that is just stupid. a game is 90mins long and Ireland had the chance in those minutes to score 2 and get themselves through. Im sure in qualifying Ireland got a dodgy penno if i remember. If everytime a decision gave a team the win we wuld have to replay it, the season would last all year round

Either we accept it or you ban players after for bringing the game into disribute like they did to fergi and Walter Smith.


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post Nov 19 2009, 04:23 PM
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Ok let's put some reality in the matter:
1 - The handball is different to a dive. A dive is very often premeditated as players know what they want to get. This was a freekick that was getting away from Henry and human nature tends to make you move a hand. If anyone has ever played Football then they would have had a similar incident where not intentionally they've handballed it. He did not think as the ball bounced, 'I'm going to handball this and then cross it', so its a foul, but putting in the same bracket as diving cheating is wrong.

2 - Look at the angles, and the ref could not see it, and the defense were blocking the linesman. They could not see the incident, and yes we should bring in video replay to handle this.

3 - You cannot expect Henry to turn round and hold his hands up and say yes I hand balled, that goal should not count when its 112th minute of the biggest games his National team have faced in 4 years. He would have been hung, drawn and quartered if France then lost on penalties.

4- The officials did not fix this as it would have been easier to give Anelka's blatant penalty rather than the handball.

I do think its unfair, and my family is French so I am feeling the Irish pain. I do agree that the seeding was stupid, but the Irish did get on with it and were very unlucky.


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post Nov 19 2009, 04:30 PM
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Watched it on French TV and with my French wife (reluctantly!) and liased by text with son at Uni who was watching it on Internet.
We all supported the French. On 5 Live later in the evening an ex Irish manger eloquently spoke and simply said Henry is not a cheat. what he did was instinctive. If you play football you will know what he means. Also Irish players were casually sitting with Thierry Henry at the end of the game-no malice shown. Henry said he told the ref he hand balled it but i'm uncertain if it was during the melle of Irish players at the time of the incident or after the game. He said the ref simply said to him: 'You're not the ref'.
I know of an ex Liverpool player and manager who told his players how to foul without the ref seeing. (he by the way is Irish). Point being there are many incidents that go on outside the rules of the game and they are as 'bad' as handball.
Its not right but its not premeditated and many football players could instinctively do it....if Chester held onto their league status with such a goal would the player be hero or villain?

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post Nov 19 2009, 06:00 PM
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Mate your missing the point the completely Henry cheated, the french football federation should be shaming henry, its disgraceful its ok for him to admit to do doing it but where does that get him? he should of gone to the ref after the goal and told him he handballed, the linesman had a perfect view of the incident yet failed to notice it ... one thinks fifa may have stiched the Irish right up here, i sent a submission into fifa last night and surprise surprise have had no reply... the game is being ran by incompetent t**ts and its ruining football for me i was ashamed as a football fan to see that happen last night


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